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Open Roads Forum  >  Toy Haulers  >  Weight Issues

 > Toyhauler weight vs truck capacity

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dkuntz

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Posted: 12/30/19 07:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I’ve done a lot of math and think I understand all the weights and I’ve always followed the safety guidelines for weights, but I feel like I see 3/4ton trucks towing large fifth wheelers down the road all the time. The trailer I want to buy is 16,000lbs fully loaded, with a 2,900lb hitch weight, but my truck only has 2,126lb payload capacity which leaves nothing for the fifth wheel hitch weight.

If my FGAWR + RGAWR = 11,400lbs and my truck weighs 7,884lbs, how does the balance of 3,516lbs relate to my payload capacity of 2,126lbs?

Why do they publish axle weight ratings when added together above to get to 11,400lbs exceed the GVWR which is 10,000lbs? Is the 1,400lbs difference part of a safety factor?

The max 5th wheel hitch weight for my truck from the MFG tables is 3,000. Why do they publish this weight if it has to be included in the payload capacity that is much less?

What am I missing?

* This post was edited 12/30/19 09:45pm by dkuntz *


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KD4UPL

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Posted: 12/30/19 07:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LOTS of people towing with 2500 trucks are over their GVWR. Most of them have probably never weighed their truck or trailer.
Really, as long as you aren't over your axle and tire ratings you should be fine. GVWR is not a legally enforceable number.
If your axle weights added up to exactly the GVWR then you would have to get the truck loaded absolutely perfectly, to the pound, to take full advantage of the GVWR. The axle weigh rating is normally limited by the tires. The GVWR of a 2500 truck is normally limited by the magical 10,000 pounds where other DOT regulations kick in. That's the main reason for 2500 trucks, do stay under the DOT regs. If it weren't for that everybody would just drive 3500 SRW trucks and be done with it.

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Posted: 12/31/19 08:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm guessing that pin weight you quoted is unloaded/empty - Expect it to be over 3000 lbs once the toy hauler is filled and loaded. By the time you add the fifth wheel hitch and a few people to the truck, you can easily approach 4000 lbs of payload.

As posted, Class 2B trucks are limited to 10k lbs GVWR to remain in that classification. Typically they are very similar to Class 3 SRW trucks, but may have softer suspension and lower rated rims and tires. Ram has the biggest difference between the 2500 and 3500 due to the suspension.

If you really want that particular model toy hauler, there ways to beef up the suspension and wheels on your current truck so that it is safe as long as you can register your truck in your state for the amount of GVW you will actually be using. If you do not feel comfortable doing this, you need to choose a a lighter trailer or a heavier rated truck.


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jmtandem

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Posted: 12/31/19 08:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Estimate about twenty percent of a fifth wheel's weight on the pin plus the weight of the fifth wheel hitch. So if the hitch is 100 pounds or so and the pin is 3200 pounds you are well over payload on your truck. A fifth wheel at 16,000 pounds is definitely in one ton territory and a dually will give you even more stability and payload. As to your question about the difference between GVWR and axle ratings, GVWR is always lower than combined axle and tire ratings.


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JIMNLIN

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Posted: 12/31/19 08:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

If my FGAWR + RGAWR = 11,400lbs and my truck weighs 7,884lbs, how does the balance of 3,516lbs relate to my payload capacity of 2,126lbs?

Hmmm never heard it put quite that way however both would be a gvw and gvwr based payload.
What you need to be looking at is how much weight are you adding to the trucks RAWR which is where most if not all weight from a 16000 lb trailer will be carried.
Quote:

Why do they publish axle weight ratings when added together above to get to 11,400lbs exceed the GVWR which is 10,000lbs? Is the 1,400lbs difference part of a safety factor?

Thats a question only the truck mfg can answer. However we do know they may choose any gvwr or fawr/rawr they want. We also know the truck maker may sum the axle ratings for a trucks gvwr if they so choose. Lots of speculation on the subject .
Quote:

The max 5th wheel hitch weight for my truck from the MFG tables is 3,000. Why do they publish this weight if it has to be included in the payload capacity that is much less?

What am I missing?

Most likely maybe the 3000 lb number comes from a gas engine work truck with few options.

Use those gvwr numbers from your truck for how much it can carry. That way you will be safe and legal.
Also use a 20 percent from any trailers gvwr for a better shot at actual max hitch loads on the truck.


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joebedford

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Posted: 12/31/19 08:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"I see 3/4ton trucks towing large fifth wheelers down the road all the time."

So do I. The back end is down on the bump stops and they're passing me at 75-80mph. I'll bet some of them show up here complaining about "china bombs" even though their tires are rated max 65mph.

Is it just you you're going to put at risk or do you have a family? If it's just you - go for it.

ependydad

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Posted: 12/31/19 09:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

At 16,000 pounds and over 3,000 pounds of pin weight, you're going to have a hell of a time staying at/under the tire loading capacity on the rear tires and may very well be butting up against/over on the rear axle capacity.

Based on numbers and ratings, I got a dually for a 15k trailer. And then upgraded that dually to a newer model year for my 22k trailer.

There's no way I'd tow a trailer that large with a 3/4 ton truck or even a 1-ton SRW truck. But we all have to make our own decisions.


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dkuntz

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Posted: 12/31/19 09:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for all the replies - I’ve checked a few more ratings and continue to think there is a ton of safety factors on safety factors in the math. I’m going to landscaping place near me so I can weigh my axles and know exactly how much weight I’m putting on them so I know I’m making a good decision with this.
My GCWR is 21,200lbs - GVW of 7,884 - 600lbs of people = 12,716lbs for hitches/trailer/etc
Tire capacity is 3,195lbs each or 6,390lbs per axle
I agree the trailer is too heavy - I’m gonna have to find a lighter rig regardless of the safety factors.

Bedlam

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Posted: 12/31/19 10:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My F250 started out pulling an 11.5K lb tag pull toy hauler. It sounds like this would be a good match for yours with little to no modifications.

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Lwiddis

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Posted: 12/31/19 11:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"So do I. The back end is down on the bump stops and they're passing me at 75-80mph. I'll bet some of them show up here complaining about "china bombs" even though their tires are rated max 65mph."

Joe must have been driving in Califonria recently...near Pismo.


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