V10 Eng, desperate in need of help

[samsontdog]

I have a 2003 Ford F250 P/Up with 124K miles. In April just before heading back to Sac Ca, I made a u turn and the p/up died. The eng would barely run for a sec or 2 then die and would not restart. Called Good Sam for a tow but in the hour it took them to go 11 miles the eng cooled off and low and behold it started. I thought it was prob the gas filter so I replaced that and drove it nearly 700 miles with no problem. Today I made a run out to the dump and it died again when I made a left turn. After an hour or so it started. I took it over to the Service place that I like to have them check it out. Said the only way they could check it, it would have to be having the same problem. he checked with 3 mec and they said the same thing. They could check everything at $120.00 an hr. I spend nearly $1K having all new everything installed 2 yrs ago. I have a 4,000 mile trip planned this summer and until I find the problem I am dead in the water. Elk Grove Ford just called me telling me they have a new Ford with the 7.3 Eng for $53,000. Any one know or think they know what the problem is with my V10 eng ?

[JoeH]

Wes Tausend wrote:


It turned out to be the right decision because a few weeks later some lady totaled out my cherry diesel pick-up while it was parked in my driveway. The lesson here is to never buy a house at the end of a long, dead-end street again. And keep in mind that insurance companies only pay book value on cherry older trucks, no matter what shape or what they cost the owner.



Wes

On my vehicles that I feel are worth more than what an insurance company's book value is, I go with an "agreed to value" . That way you can cover yourself.

[Wes_Tausend]

samsontdog wrote:
I have a 2003 Ford F250 P/Up with 124K miles. In April just before heading back to Sac Ca, I made a u turn and the p/up died. The eng would barely run for a sec or 2 then die and would not restart. Called Good Sam for a tow but in the hour it took them to go 11 miles the eng cooled off and low and behold it started. I thought it was prob the gas filter so I replaced that and drove it nearly 700 miles with no problem. Today I made a run out to the dump and it died again when I made a left turn. After an hour or so it started. I took it over to the Service place that I like to have them check it out. Said the only way they could check it, it would have to be having the same problem. he checked with 3 mec and they said the same thing. They could check everything at $120.00 an hr. I spend nearly $1K having all new everything installed 2 yrs ago. I have a 4,000 mile trip planned this summer and until I find the problem I am dead in the water. Elk Grove Ford just called me telling me they have a new Ford with the 7.3 Eng for $53,000. Any one know or think they know what the problem is with my V10 eng ?

samsontdog, it sounds like a fuel problem since it ran enough to sputter a bit. Ignition is usually either off or on and compression is rarely intermittent. It is certainly one of the three.

I can't tell you for sure what is wrong, but I can relate some weird problems I've had with a 2000 V-10 Excursion, and my own analysis's to find them.

I had trouble with an intermittent cruise control on the steering wheel. That turned out to be an $8 snap connector inside the plastic steering column housing that had one ear broken from not enough harness slack during steering wheel tilt adjustment motions. It would open a bit, then slide back together on it's own. I say only $8 because I laboriously transferred all the pins to a new plastic connector myself, then bound it with mechanics wire for added insurance.

Since your ignition switch is also hooked to similar wiring running down the steering column, it is possible that wiring there could be over-stretched like mine was. That however would seem to be either good or dead ignition, not fuel. Still, the fuel pump powers up on a timer every time the ignition is first turned on. A short or open could kill the fuel pump.

I had a hot start problem for a while. When the engine was hot, such as a rest-area stop, the engine wouldn't crank until it cooled. That turned out to be one of three series solenoids that pass key-on power eventually to the starter armature. One is on the starter, but two are on the RH fender-well. I forget why Ford needed all three, but I caught it by first getting the under-hood ultra-hot towing, then locally jumping, or measuring, the starter attached solenoid which wasn't it, then jumping, or measuring, the other two, all while being roasted to catch it hot. One of them was positively the culprit, about $18(?) new from Ford.

The starter and attached solenoid already was "new", or rebuilt by Ford anyway, but one never knows about rebuilt parts nowadays. Earlier, there had been no new starter anywhere that I could find, but new is my preference.

The starter was "new" because months prior to the hot-start problem, there was a cold-start problem. The starter actually refused to turn or even click below -10°F. First time I've even seen or heard of such a thing. That was finally proven on a New Years Eve when I got stranded in my buddies driveway when I went to leave. Back in his house, I explained my theory and he loaned me a small heater which we propped up close under the starter. Ten minutes later, at -18°F, it cranked right over, proof enough.

A few days later, above -10°F, I drove the Excursion a few blocks to NAPA to see if they carried new starters (they didn't). Since the engine was still cold, I left it warm up outside with the doors locked. Twenty minutes later, as I walked out of NAPA, I could hear an ominous rattling all the way across the parking lot. As my Excursion idled, it ran with all the lifters collapsed, no idea for how long. A quick peek through the drivers window, while I was frantically unlocking the door confirmed that there was no oil pressure; the red light was on. I shut it off. It just had an oil change, but no oil was on the ground and the clean oil was up to the full line on the dipstick. I towed it home with a cherry 2000 Ford diesel pick-up.

Long story shorter, it WOULD cost $2000 to have a shop drop the Excursion pan, just to look at what the "H" could have gone wrong. Turns out there are several "long story" contenders on Triton engines. My theory of what happened to it is that the oil pump over-pressure pop-off valve stuck open after the oil warmed up and leaked all my warmer, thinner idle-speed oil away.

So skipping the attempted salvage of a 118k engine, I had shops bid me a new engine and starter to save time and money. At $8000 installed, Ford was the best deal (three year warranty, no restrictions). I'd only paid $7000 for the Excursion to start with, but I figured even an $8k replacement SUV would have come with a well used engine and otherwise my truck chassis was pure junk without a reliable engine.

It turned out to be the right decision because a few weeks later some lady totaled out my cherry diesel pick-up while it was parked in my driveway. The lesson here is to never buy a house at the end of a long, dead-end street again. And keep in mind that insurance companies only pay book value on cherry older trucks, no matter what shape or what they cost the owner.

FWIW, I also had a hot-rod buddy that replaced the entire fuel injection system on a small SUV after over $500 fruitless bucks to trouble-shoot it. He disliked F.I. anyway, so he installed an older carbureted system. That is when he found out the pump wire running back to the tank was broken and intermittent the whole time. Whodathunk?

Good luck on your quest.

Wes

[T18skyguy]

I have a 2003 Ford with the V 10, and the fuel pump started to go out at only 50,000 miles. Does it also need extra cranking when starting? With a new fuel filter in it, have them measure the fuel pressure for starters. Also check the IAC valve(Idle air control), on the back of the engine and check the plastic lines and rubber connectors. The rubber will sometimes deteriorate and leak vacuum giving strange symptoms. When the fuel pumps get old, the centrifugal force of a turn can ground them out internally and stall it. Another thing to try while it's running: locate the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors, and give each a very light tap with a hammer. If it's going bad the engine will stall.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

My toad ran perfect. Then at 24,000:miles refused to start. I spent DAYS troubleshooting. I am not a clay pigeon parts thrower.

It all checked out. It must run.

No spark.

Finally I went back to the bank of relays in their holder. Squeezed the relays into their bases. The one near the middle squeezed about one-eighths inch. Car Started instantly. Angrily I checked the relay latches. All new looking
Then the prongs on the Bosch Relays. New brass shiny. The Packard female connector in the relay base. Loose right? Wrrrrrrong.

I wasted enough time. I re squeezed the lineup of relays once again. Dropped the hood. That was 14 years ago. And I am not wrong about the looseness measurement. Nor the hours spent in diagnostics with meters up the gazoo. But I spent $00.00 in parts. Disgusting.

[Gdetrailer]

time2roll wrote:
At 124,000 I suspect the fuel pump has quit. This can be a bit of an intermittent issue for months until it completely gives up. (don't ask how I know) The shop I had took maybe 20 minutes to go down the check list and confirm the pump.

If the plugs have not been replaced ever this would be a good time to get that done too. Consider replacing the ignition coils too if you do the plugs.

Fuel pumps can be problematic, but I must disagree with this armchair diagnosis.

Fuel pumps CAN well exceed 200,000 miles, my old 2003 F250 5.4 was at 240,000 miles when I sold it with the original fuel pump. Our old 93 Mercury had 140,000 miles when we sold it with original fuel pump, our 97 5.4 had 140,000 miles when we sold it with original pump..

Fuel pump should be diagnosed properly with a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. Low or no pressure when the failure happens and you have now isolated it to the fuel system, then you would have to determine if it electrical system issue which causes the pump to stop running.

If fuel pressure is correct when the issue happens then you would need to look elsewhere..

OPs issue seems to be happening only when making a left or right hand turn, but has happened with full and not full tank.. Could be debris or water in the tank perhaps, don't know but would hate to see the OP go through the hassle of dropping the tank to replace a fuel pump and it does not repair the issue.

It could even be the ECU failing, a wire chaffing issue, bad grounds, broken wires, water damage in fuse panel/BCM (water leaks from the windshield are a consistent problem in this yr, water drips down onto the drivers side onto the top of the fuse panel which is a "smart" panel with BCM corroding connections), TPS (throttle position Sensor), weak battery or charging system, speed sensor, vacuum leaks (the age of this vehicle and mileage OPs vehicle most likely has a few vacuum lines on the verge of snapping off)..

Age is against this vehicle making it difficult to diagnose from behind a keyboard.

This vehicle has a very limited OBD1 ECU and sensors with OBD2 interface giving a very limited look at the system while running. OP may need to come up with a fuel gauge to connect to the fuel rail and somehow be able to read the gauge while driving.

Op would need to also check/monitor the voltage applied to the fuel pump while driving to see if there is an electrical issue causing the fuel pump to cut out.

OP may need to check every connector and every ground connection for corrosion damage or broken wires..

If it is stalling only when making turns and no other times, a very good chance there is a chaffed or broken wire which IS a common issue..

Be aware, there can be many HIDDEN wiring splices inside any of the wiring harnesses which often become problematic over time..

HERE is an example of many that I found just with a simple Internet search, the poster there had a 2003 Expedition which would stall when making left turns. Turns out it was one of the wires chaffing and shorting in the wiring harness connection to the battery.

If I was in the OPs shoes and really wanted to go on their trip without the nagging thought of this thing croaking while traveling I would suggest looking into perhaps renting a truck if fixing for sure or buying a new truck isn't happening.

[time2roll]

ernie1 wrote:
For your Ford truck there is an inertia fuel shutoff switch located in the passenger footwell on the right side kick panel that will shutoff the fuel to the fuel pump in case of an accident or sometimes a bump in the road. But if it is triggered, you have to manually reset it by pressing a button and not waiting awhile like you have been doing. Maybe not your problem but I just thought I'd throw it out there for your info.

This will not create an intermittent problem but the technician should check as part of the fuel pump diagnostics.

[time2roll]

At 124,000 I suspect the fuel pump has quit. This can be a bit of an intermittent issue for months until it completely gives up. (don't ask how I know) The shop I had took maybe 20 minutes to go down the check list and confirm the pump.

If the plugs have not been replaced ever this would be a good time to get that done too. Consider replacing the ignition coils too if you do the plugs.

[Gdetrailer]

STBRetired wrote:
Ford has a box that plugs into the OBD port on your vehicle. It sits on the floor and records everything the ECU sees and does. When you have the issue, you push the button on the box and it locks in the previous 10 minutes worth of data. My BIL is a Ford service manager.. That is what they use for intermittent problems.

We are talking about a 17 yr old vehicle with 17 yr old "technology".

2003 that is actually OBD1 with OBD2 port connection, in essence it is a "hybrid", OBD2 readers can connect and they can read codes, however with the OBD1 system it is connected to has very little diagnostic information that is monitored and reported.

As long as there is no CEL or MIL light, there is no "codes" stored and most likely no "pending" codes since OBD1 has a lot less sensors to report on. Even "live" Data is pretty sparse on vehicles of this age making trouble shooting a lot harder.

Even on OBD2 vehicles you should NEVER fully rely on the codes or live data and just randomly throw parts at it..

As far as a local Ford dealer trouble shooting a 17 yr old vehicle, yeah from my experience plan on spending north of $4K and multiple trips and lots of parts thrown at it AND STILL NOT FIXED!!!.. That comes from experience with a 2006 5.4 which does have full OBD2!

I ended up fixing the original problem (not the same as the OP) with a CAN OF THROTTLE BODY CLEANER AND A RAG! Got tired of NPF (No Problem found) and $4K poorer I did an internet search of the syptoms and found out the throttle body was gummed up.. In the mean time the dealer damaged a cat converter, changed fuel pump, changed plugs and darn near cost me thousands more when I discovered a LOOSE PLUG!!!

My advise to the OP, IF you love and are attached to your truck, you will want to fix it yourself, otherwise I will recommend saving your sanity and a lot of money and buy a NEW truck.. The 6.2 V8 gas engines are awesome and from what I hear, the new 7.3 gas is even better..

[ernie1]

For your Ford truck there is an inertia fuel shutoff switch located in the passenger footwell on the right side kick panel that will shutoff the fuel to the fuel pump in case of an accident or sometimes a bump in the road. But if it is triggered, you have to manually reset it by pressing a button and not waiting awhile like you have been doing. Maybe not your problem but I just thought I'd throw it out there for your info.

[wnjj]

BigDogBS wrote:
I agree on failing fuel pump.I had a Chevy do the same.Would not start with ether due to not building fuel pressure in the fuel rail..It died on road two times before finally figured it was fuel pump..After new fuel pump installed all has been good

x3 (or x4)

[BigDogBS]

I agree on failing fuel pump.I had a Chevy do the same.Would not start with ether due to not building fuel pressure in the fuel rail..It died on road two times before finally figured it was fuel pump..After new fuel pump installed all has been good

[Gjac]

Oregun wrote:
My 99 F350/V10 did something similar. Turned out to be the fuel pump in the gas tank.
When it wouldn't start you could hit the gas tank with a board and then it would start.
Or just wait until it cooled off and it would work. Not a cheap repair.

Sounds to me like a failing fuel pump. I spent a lot of time trying to find the problem and changing parts. What I learned from this experience is fuel pressure does not predict a failing fuel pump. If the fuel pump is bad (totally failed) it will but one that is working intermittently testing the volume of fuel(gals/min) is a better test. Have your mechanic look up the specs for your vehicle and have him do a flow test, you don't want to be caught on the road with a failing fuel pump especially in the summer when everyone is traveling and you can't find a shop available to fix it.

[midnightsadie]

try taking to wal mart in the late evening and recreate your problem. even pay the mech to ride along.

[Oregun]

My 99 F350/V10 did something similar. Turned out to be the fuel pump in the gas tank.
When it wouldn't start you could hit the gas tank with a board and then it would start.
Or just wait until it cooled off and it would work. Not a cheap repair.