Very Frustrated

[mikemc53]

OK, bear with me on a long post.

Packed and ready to head south with unit loaded and ready for family. Had been on auxiliary power this past week and all appliances/accessories were functional. Went to start the motorhome (2004 Holiday Ramble Vacationer on Ford F53 Chassis) and it wouldn't turn over. Hit battery boost and it started up and ran well. Let it run about an hour or so and then needed to shut it sown to bring slides in. After that, no start - even with battery boost. Tried a separate, off the unit, battery booster that I have and still nothing.

Battery Minder says battery is desulfinated so I pulled the battery and went to town to find another. Could not match one up but bought what looked to be similar battery - it did not fit. I did, though, get it kind of hooked up just to see and still, no start. Took it back and picked up my old battery just for a placeholder. Put it back in and the unit started right up and turned over extremely well. Ran it for half an hour - shut it off...and since then, no start.

It seems to try, just one time...very slowly and then nothing. Can't figure out why it started a couple of times, but mostly nothing. Really didn't want a starter issue and not sure if that is even the case. Thought maybe a bad cell in battery but why would it start once or twice and then nothing?

If it was a starter why, again, would it once or twice but not any of the other times?

Very unhappy wife and pups - and one frustrated little Irishman.

Thoughts?

[mchero]

Double post

[mchero]

Thanks Ge & Mex!
Mex, how have you been doing down south?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Many true solenoids I have diagnosed have multiple indications of being fed insufficient voltage by the control circuit. Twenty five years ago every starter job on motorhomes included a GENUINE Bosch relay or 300 amp Ford starter relay feeding a cross-link control wire down to the starter's solenoid. A TEN AWG wire. I have a SIX GAUGE CONTROL WIRE feeding the 50MT starter on my bus.

No disc or contact erosion, no early failure. Simple as that.

[Gdetrailer]

mchero wrote:
I herd the term "Problematic starter relays" from Ford motorhome owners over in the irv2 Fleetwood forum.
I posted an issue with a Southwind motorhome that is having a no start issue. Guess what I found? A "problem" with the starter relay in the upper left corner in the doghouse looking from the backend looking forward.
The relay was not passing voltage down to the starter "solenoid".
So, i picked up the term problematic from owners of the older Ford chassis owners.

This is the relay I am referring to;
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHST40?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Alternators...

Here's a simple schematic of how its wired. I did run across a Ford schematic but can't locate;
https://images.app.goo.gl/9cw3i41d67eLYEYK6

SO, We are talking BOTH a relay and solenoid in the starting curcuit.
Not sure how many years these relays where used, thus my post.

Those would be specifically used on the chassis used for MHs and not part of the original design for Ford Cars and trucks. May also have been added on by the RV manufacturer..

In a nutshell, Ford and other manufacturers would build a stripped down bare chassis with motor, transmission, brakes, steering wheel and the basic chassis wiring.. It is up to the MH builder to add to, remove or MODIFY wiring to suit the MH engineering and design team. Often in Chassis and van wiring space is limited and wiring may need moved or altered.. It is for this reason that you may have difficult time with wiring, fuse boxes and engine parts designed specifically for that motorhome..

heck, even determining the actual yr of manufacture for the chassis can be a challenge since the MH manufacturer will often issue their own VIN with build date for their custom creation.

One of the many reasons, I do not plan to ever buy a motor home, too many jacked up "one off" parts and wiring making them difficult to repair.

[mchero]

I herd the term "Problematic starter relays" from Ford motorhome owners over in the irv2 Fleetwood forum.
I posted an issue with a Southwind motorhome that is having a no start issue. Guess what I found? A "problem" with the starter relay in the upper left corner in the doghouse looking from the backend looking forward.
The relay was not passing voltage down to the starter "solenoid".
So, i picked up the term problematic from owners of the older Ford chassis owners.

This is the relay I am referring to;
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHST40?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Alternators...

Here's a simple schematic of how its wired. I did run across a Ford schematic but can't locate;
https://images.app.goo.gl/9cw3i41d67eLYEYK6

SO, We are talking BOTH a relay and solenoid in the starting curcuit.
Not sure how many years these relays where used, thus my post.

[Gdetrailer]

Dusty R wrote:
All relays use a solenoid.

:R

Semantics..

Solenoid in the CAR WORLD is pretty much the term used for a HEAVY DUTY HIGH CURRENT "relay" and is typically designed for SHORT TERM INTERMITTENT USAGE and main usage is for the starter.. They are used so you do not have to run 2ga or heavier wire to your ignition key switch..

Looks like this..



"Relays" are typically much lower current and can have intermittent duty or continuous duty, tend to be much smaller handle far less current..

Can look like this Bosch style 12V relay..



or even micro miniature relays that are mounted to circuit boards..

Yes, you can have "solenoid motors" which basically you have a heavy electromagnet with a hole inside attract a steel pin and the pin can be attached to other mechanical linkages and or close or open electrical "contacts". Solenoid coils tend to draw a heavy current, they have to since they are designed to move heavy spring loads.

Relays typically have an electromagnet with a fixed steel core and when magnetized it pulls the relay contacts open and or shut depending on the design..

[Dusty_R]

All relays use a solenoid.

[Gdetrailer]

mchero,

Been driving Fords from the 1970s, have never had a "problematic" starter "relay", I am thinking what you are calling a "relay" was in fact a solenoid.

Pre 1990s Ford used a remote solenoid mounted near the battery, those were dead on reliable.

GM, yeah, they had lots of those because they put the solenoid ON the starter!

Somewhere in the 1990's Ford succumbed to GMs foolishness and the solenoid was added to the starter like GM.. and the temperamental solenoid games began..

[mchero]

Does tje op's ford chassis have the problematic starter RELAY? I know the older chassis did.

[Gdetrailer]

OkieGene wrote:

There are just getting to be very very VERY few places that repair starters, alternators, radiators, things of that nature. Those repair shops are few and far between, as well as the availability of parts to repair such things.

It's a changing world. Buy cheap ****, throw it away.

It was bound to happen.

When I first got into the workforce in the mid 1980s, I spent the first 4 yrs repairing pretty much any and all consumer electronics like TVs, Stereos, VCRS, DVD players.. The last shop I worked for closed when I got a real hourly paying job repairing computerized POS equipment..

Cheap electronics killed the TV repairman. If you couldn't charge $50 per unit and repair a lot of them you were going to go broke.

No one wanted to pay $50 to have a 4 yr old 19" TV when for $100 they could buy a newer and much larger screen.

Every type of repair requires specialized tools and training and some like automotive work requires considerable retraining and new tools on a yearly basis.

Granted, alternator, starter and even radiator repairs are not rocket science but with the Internet and the flood of lower cost imported parts you are going to have a difficult time making enough profit to keep the lights on..

And yes, I watched my Dad refurb starters, alternators and even repair a old few radiators with pin holes..

But, I don't have the lathe he had to turn down the commutator, getting brushes now days requires ordering them from the Internet, even bearings get be a drag to get, alternators now days has regulators built in and radiators, well are not a DIY repair due to them being aluminum cores with a plastic tank with a gasket crimped together..

Most likely you will have more than $50 in parts along in a starter and more than $70 in parts in an alternator if you really were to fully rebuild them and I highly doubt anyone would be successful and recrimping a used aluminum radiator core to a nice new plastic tank without a lot of leaks (aluminum doesn't take well to be bent more than once).

[time2roll]

The old dinosaur weighs a ton. I would sooner get a new aluminum jack. Some of the new stuff is actually better.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I'd far rather have some one else do mechanical work. I'm here for the party, not for the pain.

[OkieGene]

time2roll wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

+1


My Craftsman hydraulic floor jack my dad gave me when I was 15yo failed to hold a vehicle up this past weekend. Not sure I will replace it.

Very well could be low on hydraulic jack fluid. I have a vintage floor jack that has a very slight seepage. Occasionally I have to add fluid to it. I know when it's low on fluid when the jack only raises part way up then bleeds down.

There are just getting to be very very VERY few places that repair starters, alternators, radiators, things of that nature. Those repair shops are few and far between, as well as the availability of parts to repair such things.

It's a changing world. Buy cheap ****, throw it away.

[ernie1]

Okay guys I get your point. Just for the record, I'm 77years old.