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atreis

IN

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Posted: 03/02/21 06:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

sayoung wrote:

My electricity or natural gas had absolutely NO interruption. Y'all explain how to plan for temps as much as 63 d F below avg & make it reliable at 105 or hotter which we have more warm days than any cold ones . I've been running my AC for nearly a week now.


It doesn't get over 100 as often as it does in Texas, but northern midwestern states occasionally experience temperatures over 100 degrees in the summer, with very high humidity, and temperatures in the winter far colder than Texas had. Our power systems work year round. When demand in a given area spikes due to unprecedented weather, or supply drops due to natural disasters, we can draw power from other parts of the country that aren't experiencing those events. These problems have been solved. The solutions have been proven, over decades, to work effectively.


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PawPaw_n_Gram

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Posted: 03/02/21 09:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Texas was a multiplex cascade failure. That is what engineers are for. Direct them to design and implement a grid interconnect for a specified environment. Multiple NG plants studded throughout the system can bear quite a load if industry has a plan for load shedding. One does not run to a NG plant turn the key and start it up. It allows for boilers turbines and cooling towers to warm up. Many of these functions can be automated. Cost of this is borne as recurrent operations.

I cannot see where California would not incur the same effect with similar outcome.


The natural gas problem in the recent Texas failure was largely having to shut down operating NG plants, because the pipelines could not supply NG to the plants. Once the plants burned through their ready stocks in the first day or two, they started going off line, faster than other sources were being brought on-line.

The pumping stations for the pipelines, the pipelines themselves and many current supply well heads were not insulated or protected against extensive cold.

Yes, this should never have been allowed to happen. But with NG currently so cheap, no power company was willing to pay a slightly higher price for NG from providers who had done due diligence to protect their supply.

An additional problem was that the supply of NG was cut so low, that the gas companies had to make a decision. Cut off NG flow to homes and businesses that used it as their primary heat source. That would be to push what NG they had into power plants.

Damned if they did and damned if they did not.


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Yosemite Sam1

Under the pines.

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Posted: 03/08/21 11:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PawPaw_n_Gram wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Texas was a multiplex cascade failure. That is what engineers are for. Direct them to design and implement a grid interconnect for a specified environment. Multiple NG plants studded throughout the system can bear quite a load if industry has a plan for load shedding. One does not run to a NG plant turn the key and start it up. It allows for boilers turbines and cooling towers to warm up. Many of these functions can be automated. Cost of this is borne as recurrent operations.

I cannot see where California would not incur the same effect with similar outcome.


The natural gas problem in the recent Texas failure was largely having to shut down operating NG plants, because the pipelines could not supply NG to the plants. Once the plants burned through their ready stocks in the first day or two, they started going off line, faster than other sources were being brought on-line.

The pumping stations for the pipelines, the pipelines themselves and many current supply well heads were not insulated or protected against extensive cold.

Yes, this should never have been allowed to happen. But with NG currently so cheap, no power company was willing to pay a slightly higher price for NG from providers who had done due diligence to protect their supply.

An additional problem was that the supply of NG was cut so low, that the gas companies had to make a decision. Cut off NG flow to homes and businesses that used it as their primary heat source. That would be to push what NG they had into power plants.

Damned if they did and damned if they did not.


Texas' problem as I've read it is more than NG issue.

First, amnesia. They have the situation in 2011 and what happened recently is just a repeat. Nothing learned, nothing changes -- same polices, same leaders.

Deregulated utilities meant Texas grid is not inter-connected to the national system. When grid is down, it can't be supplied from other generating plants from other states with surplus capacities whether it's NG, coal, nuclear or renewables.

Also, generating plants, being deregulated were able to escape federal standards of being winterized.

Do you think the state will ever learn? To find, out, look at the a word in a definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Etstorm

Frankston,TX

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Posted: 03/08/21 03:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We don’t want Fed control in Texas #Texit!

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 03/08/21 03:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Then should TX get Fed help paying the power bills caused by TX free market?

Geo*Boy

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Posted: 03/08/21 05:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

Then should TX get Fed help paying the power bills caused by TX free market?

NO!!!

Geo*Boy

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Posted: 03/08/21 05:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Etstorm wrote:

We don’t want Fed control in Texas #Texit!

GREAT. TAKE your BIG savings from not meeting Federal Standards and fix YOUR own problems.


-----------
Easy folks!!! (Mod)

* This post was edited 03/09/21 07:00am by an administrator/moderator *

pitch

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Posted: 03/09/21 05:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One more flaming post in this thread and it will be closed! (Mod)

* This post was edited 03/09/21 06:58am by an administrator/moderator *

sayoung

Tx

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Posted: 03/09/21 06:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One more flaming post in this thread and it will be closed! (Mod)

* This post was edited 03/09/21 06:58am by an administrator/moderator *

Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 03/10/21 09:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Etstorm wrote:

We don’t want Fed control in Texas #Texit!


Not a flaming post but the truth.

The state seem not to mind the assistance and yearly subsidy from federal taxes paid by other states, from Business Insider, per capita:

TX Federal tax paid $9,200: Per Capital spending $9,503

Or, the federal assistance for disaster relief?

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