Building New Campground. Opinions Welcome!

[Packbacker]

My family is working on building a new campground from scratch and we would like to get some opinions from campers or campground owners. We considered building right off a major interstate on about 35 acres but are now looking at building on our own property. Our property is 12 minutes from the interstate. It is located on 500 acres of beautiful longleaf pine with unique sandhills topography and river access. We plan to offer typical park amenities such as pool, playground, splash pad, bath houses, etc. We also have miles of walking/bicycle trails, access to the slow, tranquil river and cabins rentals. Our main question we'd like opinions on is whether this type of park would be more attractive to campers versus a park right off the interstate and would the 12 minute drive be a turnoff? Also worth noting that the 12 minute drive is a 4 lane highway that is 55mph the entire ride.

[Ralph_Cramden]

Reading through an article at Rvbusiness that linked HERE brought this recent thread to mind. Not exactly the full blown rural part of West Virgina neither, right outside of Charleston and Huntington.

[Veebyes]

There are all kinds of wants, all kinds of expectations.

We are kind of simple. OTA TV is good enough but cable is a treat. Good CG wide WIFI is expected. A laundry is also expected. Don't need FHU but a dump that makes sense is important. Power & water are good enough. All sites back in are OK as long as they are long enough. State park spacing is wonderful. Camp cram-em-in is not. Something in between is acceptable. Don't care about a pool, putt putt golf or any of the other so-called resort stuff. Not even likely to look if Resort is in the name.

12 miles from the exit is a stretch for 1 night. 12 miles is at least 3 gal diesel at whatever a gal added.

Always hold some sites non reservable. They will be deeply appreciated & remembered by those who travel on a loose schedule. Might even keep an overflow area looking nice if necessary for dry camping.

[myredracer]

You will have to comply with various codes and regulations, two major ones being NFPA 1194 Standard for
Recreational Vehicle Parks and Campgrounds (older "free" version here) and NEC article 551. There's likely to be other regs like local enviromental.

NFPA 1194 covers requirements for sanitation (including pipe dia. and slope), potable water, roads, site layouts, water/electrical/sewer locations on a site, fire safety, common washroom/laundry/shower facilities. The NEC covers all electrical requirements for RV Parks, including numbers of 50 & 30 amp sites (40% of a CG is now required to be 50 amps). I can't see building a CG without hiring a consultant & engineering firm who will prepare and submit plans to the local AHJ.

[Tvov]

Wifi is the way to go -- if, and only if, you set it up to be strong enough and fast enough for everyone to be streaming movies at the same time. Otherwise have cable, and maybe "limited" wifi - and be HONEST about the wifi capability and location. Just because the far corner of the campground gets 1 bar wifi reception on a full moon with a west wind does not mean "full wifi coverage". Try to have someone on staff who knows how your wifi / cable / internet system works, so when there are problems they hopefully can solve them quickly.

Plan on not making any money for a while... you need to get the customers, so your prices have to be the same, or below, neighboring campgrounds to draw business. And those neighboring campgrounds were installed / built 50 years ago, so they aren't trying to recover startup costs.

We've found that electric and water campsites with "grey water drain" to be great. I assume it is a lot less expensive to do that instead of running sewer to all the sites. You could start with that, maybe planning on full hookups in the future. Your campground dumpsite, I assume, would be where all the sewer lines would eventually lead to.

Make sure your electric system can handle all the campers running their air conditioners at the same time.

Have an electrician either on staff, or available for emergency service!

Camp store (assuming you are planning on having one): Keep it clean and organized, keep the stock (Especially food and snacks!!) fresh and up to date. You can tell when people who have really RV'd setup a store - all sorts of little repair items that the "normal" supply display (like at a Walmart) doesn't have. One campground had a barrel full of used water and sewer connections for $1 each, or free with exchange. It was great because you could figure out somehow how to connect something to something else inexpensively.

If you want to setup an arcade game room, that is fine... just make sure all the machines work. I don't think I've ever been to any campground where all the video machines worked, or even most of them.

See if you can make arrangements with a local RV repair place to take care of emergency repairs for your customers. Having a mobile RV tech available is even better. You will get a lot of good reviews if people need repair work done and are greeted with "You are from ***** campground? Come right in! You go to the front of the line.". It just makes a person feel good.

If you are going to have a pool, have a heated pool. Keep it sparkling clean as much as possible. And be Honest about when it is open - season and hours. One campground we don't go to anymore had a pool that wasn't open in the spring or fall because it wasn't heated, and during the summer it seemed to be always out of service. They were not being honest about the pool - they really didn't have one available for most of the season (if it was ever open).

Bathrooms - yes, most RV'rs use their own bathroom, but clean campground bathrooms make a big impression. On weekends you need a staff member (or better yet a crew) to clean them every day. One top rated campground we've been to had a 4 (four!) person crew clean the bathrooms Twice(!) a day on weekends - I believe they were workcampers. Made a big positive impression on us!

Seasonal / long term campers - be very, very careful about this. Yes, seasonals provide a steady money stream, but... one campground owner said that sure the steady income was fine, but the seasonals never went near the camp store, where he made a substantial profit on snacks and knick-nacks. He said it was close, but that the "weekenders" were more profitable than the seasonals. This was his experience at his campground, yours might be different.

Also, as has been mentioned, if seasonals "take over" a campground, you are going to have plenty of empty sites on weekends because your campground will develop a reputation for nasty seasonals and people will stay away. At a minimum, enforce the campground rules equally!

Not trying to be too down on seasonal campers, but we've been to a bunch of campgrounds where our experience was maybe not ruined, but at least dampened greatly by nasty seasonals.

Then again, at one of our favorite campgrounds (Riverbend in Oneco, Connecticut), the seasonals there are Great and make for wonderful weekend experiences!

I could go on and on about a "perfect" campground. Regarding the true phrase "if you try to please everyone, no one will be pleased"... when in doubt, set things up the way YOU would like them - most likely a lot of other people like the same things the same way!

[Busskipper]

Just a note here on the 12 miles.

Average cost to drive a big DP is $.50/mile - so that is like adding $12.00 to the cost of each site. (12 + 12 = 24/2 = 12)

Not a killer for all but something to Keep in Mind as you move forward.

Just a Thought,

[Ralph_Cramden]

Good Luck. Having done a little development over the last 30 years, but never a campground or RV park, unless the OP is in Backwater Podunk USA that still is in the 1950's I can only imagine the cost, time, and red tape involved with approvals, permits, and such. Especially so when it comes to sewage and environmental aspects. Hopefully not a lot of NIMBYS around which can be a hurdle all in itself. Be ready to deal with multiple government entities who all have their hand out. The entire process just to get to the point of being able to move some dirt is an experience to behold and an expensive one. River access? wait until you see what that entails getting anywhere close with the EPA, ACOE, and a host of others. The first thing the OP needs is a really good Attorney who understands the local approval process and is not the local bankruptcy or liability lawtard.

I have not been involved in developing a campground or RV resort, but have been involved in ripping out two nice ones in favor of commercial properties due to urban sprawl in western PA that had been in existence for years. One for a large shopping complex, the other is now the site of a UPMC hospital / clinic.

Unless you have some major draw like the ocean or some other touristy thing, and a highly accommodating government hierarchy in your area from the Feds on down, I don't see the ROI being there for developing such a facility from scratch. We have some condos in the early planning stages right now in a resort area of MD. For the 28 condos it looks like our sewer tap fees are going to be in the order of $5200 unless we can get them negotiated down. That's $5200.00 X 28, $150K followed by the monthly fee @ $45 for each owner. To put in a campground or Park in that same area the developer would encounter the exact same thing on a per site basis, but every jurisdiction is different.

Sounds like the OP is in the south where at least they don't have the 6-8 month limited seasonal use aspect to deal with. I guess there is always the possibility of one having the land and money to piss away, to just take on such a thing out of the desire and love just to do it, but I don't see the ROI without all the stars and planets aligning.

With all the brouhaha generated on RV boards about how hard it is finding sites, one would think Parks and Campgrounds would be popping up everywhere, but you don't see it happening.

[doxiemom11]

Your site size is long, but very much appreciated by many. We have met people with rigs that were very very long. We ourselves are only 48' but we also have a vehicle to park behind that. Not having our front or rear ends hanging an inch into the road is good. Also 40'ft is not that wide. Have been on sites that were 35' wide and still felt packed in. The more space between rigs the better. We would most definitely drive 12 miles to a smaller country campground. We try NOT to ever stay next to the interstate. It's too noisy.

[AikenRacer]

FHU with concrete pads

[Dutch_12078]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Worm sure has turned in the last 10 posts. Gone from the argument that paying more than the minimum was for stupid people and being the lowest cost provider was the way to go. Now, everything comes up rosy when you charge higher rates. You get a better class of guests and the occupancy rises. It took a little time, but thanks for supporting my position.

It's all about "perceived value". Put an old set of tires on your lawn with a "Free" sign and they might sit there for a week or more. Put a $20 sign on them and they'll disappear overnight... 😉

[westernrvparkow]

mike brez wrote:

Big Katuna wrote:

mike brez wrote:
You couldent offend me if you tried. yep we are the cheapest :B

I found that being the cheapest in town brought in more undesirables.

I raised my rates (after remodeling and upgrades) to slightly under the most expensive and my occupancy shot up.

People perceive higher prices as a better experience.

Less stolen towels, too.

You are right on the money. We did the same.
We were one of the least expensive in the area.
We did a remodel and raised the rates. Our occupancy rate is almost unbelievable. We still have a huge towel issue though. Ooh well 19 more days to go.

Worm sure has turned in the last 10 posts. Gone from the argument that paying more than the minimum was for stupid people and being the lowest cost provider was the way to go. Now, everything comes up rosy when you charge higher rates. You get a better class of guests and the occupancy rises. It took a little time, but thanks for supporting my position.

[CFerguson]

If you have to put your money on one, go with Wifi for sure. Its the future.

That said, my wife loves some non-air channels and I like a non-air sports channel. Could we stream them? Probably, and may very well start doing that soon. For now, its always a bonus when we find the channels we like at a CG.

Bottom line for us is that crappy Wifi is a No Stay and no cable makes no difference to us.

[2012Coleman]

Packbacker wrote:
Thanks to everyone for your input so far. We are good to go on zoning, water and septic and are in the process of moving forward. Regarding the land closer to the interstate, we found out a few months back that there wasn't enough sewer capacity left at the property to support the park and upgrading the system was a dealbreaker for us which is what prompted us to look at some of our own property. While we realize the type of park we're proposing would be looked at as more a "destination" park, we still feel like we can catch our fair share of overnighters due to the relatively short drive from the interstate. From our feasabilty study to campers we've personally spoken with and input from forums like this, it sounds like that would be the case.


With that being said, I have another question to all of you regarding cable. Being that this is a new park from the ground up, do many of you still see a need for cable or would excellent Wifi be sufficient for todays camper? Lots of people we spoken with personally feel like cable is becoming a thing of the past and along with Wifi we have excellent local antenna channels in the area.

I'd think about putting in cable and forget about WiFi. Why go to the expense when it will no doubt be overwhelmed with HD video streaming as stated. I have a phone with a hotspot that I can connect devices to and we can surf or Netflix all we want, or check the commercial coverage. OTOH, I have been to a few parks with cable, and was basically underwhelmed - mostly because I had to pay big bucks for a longer cable at the camp store because the placement of the power pole in my site. We usually rent a movie from the local RedBox or have our own.

[mike_brez]

Big Katuna wrote:

mike brez wrote:
You couldent offend me if you tried. yep we are the cheapest :B

I found that being the cheapest in town brought in more undesirables.

I raised my rates (after remodeling and upgrades) to slightly under the most expensive and my occupancy shot up.

People perceive higher prices as a better experience.

Less stolen towels, too.

You are right on the money. We did the same.
We were one of the least expensive in the area.
We did a remodel and raised the rates. Our occupancy rate is almost unbelievable. We still have a huge towel issue though. Ooh well 19 more days to go.

[Big_Katuna]

mike brez wrote:
You couldent offend me if you tried. yep we are the cheapest :B

I found that being the cheapest in town brought in more undesirables.

I raised my rates (after remodeling and upgrades) to slightly under the most expensive and my occupancy shot up.

People perceive higher prices as a better experience.

Less stolen towels, too.