Canadian Snowbirds heading home-Antigen Rapid Tests required

[Canuck_Travelle]

Seeing that soon there will be a swell of Canadian Snowbirds heading home and seeing the protocol at the border is a requirement of a certified Rapid Test (Antigen) test not more than 24 hours prior to crossing has anyone crossed yet or know of anyone crossing?

Anyone have any more info on this like did they or do they know of anyone crossing, where did they get the test, costs, was it certified, was there any problem at the border showing the Border personnel the test and acceptance.

Really appreciate any info, thanks....

[silversand]

....and, natural immunity now appears to be durable (at least as good as purely vaccination) in the Lancet article:

A multicentre, prospective cohort of NHS workers published in the Lancet showed an 84% lower risk after natural infection lasting at least 7 months. A report from Dublin published in January this year reviewed 11 large cohort studies and found natural immunity lasted at least 10 months.

[silversand]

....one of the points she makes is does it make sense to give previously infected populations a vaccine dose, when billions of population have not yet been infected (we are talking passed tense here, of course) had a single dose (ie. more efficient dose distribution)? How many in the world still have not as yet received a single vaccine dose to this day, and have not yet been infected (likely a small uninfected cohort; but the point still....) in 2022?

[silversand]

...now read the linked NEJM study in the paragraph after the India piece:

A national database study including almost 22,000 people in Qatar published in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that previous infection was "robust" - approximately 90% - in preventing reinfection with the Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants of SARS-CoV-2, and approximately 60% "but still considerable" against Omicron. None of the re-infections progressed to critical or fatal outcomes and the effectiveness against severe, critical, or fatal COVID-19 was estimated to be 69.4% against Alpha, 88.0% against Beta, 100% against Delta, and 87.8% against Omicron variants.

[silversand]

....at least as good.

Read the linked Swiss study and the India studies in her paragraphs:

For example, a study in Geneva, Switzerland, of people infected in the first wave showed a 15.5% infection rate in seronegative individuals compared with just 1% in seropositives, giving overall protection attributable to infection of 94% - comparable with that in the original Pfizer vaccine trial.

Another study from India showed that seropositivity protected against both infection and severe disease, and suggested "strong plausibility that development of antibody following natural infection not only protects against re-infection by the virus to a great extent, but also safeguards against progression to severe COVID-19 disease".

[BCSnob]

But the author wrote

“Antibodies derived from natural infection with COVID-19 are more abundant and more potent….”

Not “Antibodies derived from natural infection with COVID-19 plus vaccination are more abundant and more potent….”

The whole point of her article was natural immunity (only from infection) is better than (or at least as good) immunity from vaccination. She started her article misrepresenting the results from the linked study which did not compare antibody levels from just infection vs antibody levels from vaccination.

[silversand]

BC Snob wrote:
I find no data in the linked study on antibodies from only infection.

....hello BC. Yep. I thoroughly read through every linked study.

What the Oregon Health & Science study shows, is the antibodies in the three sampled cohorts that have been both~vaccinated and naturally~infected are ~10 (ie. many) times "more potent" than having been vaccinated alone. As an aside, hybrid immunity has been investigated in numerous studies, and appears to be superior to either stand-alone vaccination, or stand-alone natural infection.

And the above is why I say in the subsequent post, "and if you have 3 mRNA shots, count yourself lucky. Prepare to be naturally infected, no matter what protective measures you use (ie. PPE)"

It (the Oregon study) doesn't inform the antibody potency in individuals NOT included in the study (not included in the study: people who have not been vaccinated at all (ie. solely natural immunity)). So, yes, those reading the Medscape article need to understand this.

The "10 times" should be interpreted as above. The author, a MB BS, MPhil as I understand the British medical qualification, MB is a UK medical doctor, something similar to an American MD.

[BCSnob]

silversand wrote:
....this thread has probably now run its course. Just one last item of important interest, that may inform the course of this pandemic. Whether you are vaccinated or not, this recent comprehensive article in Medscape may save your sanity. It is a comprehensive review of all known scientific research on why we now are certain, that natural immunity will be the policy of close to every nation on Earth, whether you choose the vaccination route, or not. It is a long article, with a link to each piece of research backing the article thesis:

Covid-19: Why are we Ignoring Infection-Acquired Immunity?

....the section on long-lasting protection, Comparisons With Vaccine-induced Immunity, Caution Over Boosters and now, you having read all the supporting research linked in the article, the most poignant section, the future of Public Health Policy will drive home how we should proceed in the future with natural immunity policy IF inconvenient science does not continue to be sidelined.

Did you follow your advice and read the linked studies in the summary article you posted? The first paragraph states

Antibodies derived from natural infection with COVID-19 are more abundant and more potent – at least 10 times more potent – than immunity generated by vaccination alone, according to a study from Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) in Portland, US, published on January 25.

In order to determine that natural infection produces 10x more antibodies than vaccination one would assume the linked study from Oregon Health & Science University would have measured the antibody levels in people who were only infected and not vaccinated. I find no data in the linked study on antibodies from only infection.

[silversand]

.....with every individual BA.2 shedder infecting up to 12 others (Esterman, Australian epidemiologist), Omicron BA.2 is right up there with measles (and maybe even more so) as the most contagious pathogens yet known to science. There is no known mRNA vaccine than can protect anyone from acquiring "it", no matter how many doses you get (even 4). It will infect every living breathing person on Earth in the coming weeks (not months). There are presently more than 3 million in the UK with symptomatic BA.2 today (2.93 million 2 days ago). This happened in a few weeks. In about 2 weeks, BA.2 will be the "only game in town" across the US and Canada.

Stay healthy, get exercise, eat exceptionally nutritious foods, get plenty of sleep, keep alcohol consumption low, and if you have 3 mRNA shots, count yourself lucky. Prepare to be naturally infected, no matter what protective measures you use (the only exception is BSL-4 equivalent permanent personal lockdown).

A must watch; Dr John Campbell on BA.2 Here-->

[pianotuna]

joebedford,

Well said.

[joebedford]

silversand wrote:
natural immunity will be the policy of close to every nation on Earth

The article contradicts what the epidemiologists that I pay attention to say. Actually, all of them say that immunity caused by previous infection is worth something, at least for a while.

Personally I think various governments have given up - it is what it is in their eyes. Some people will unnecessarily die but hopefully not enough that it'll make a difference in the next elections.

Personally, I'll continue to wear my mask and observe former guidelines despite the fact that many governments are / have dropped them. Hopefully my triple vaxxed status will keep me out of the hospital. I don't want to get immunity through infection because too great a risk of long COVID symptoms.

YMMV

[silversand]

....this thread has probably now run its course. Just one last item of important interest, that may inform the course of this pandemic. Whether you are vaccinated or not, this recent comprehensive article in Medscape may save your sanity. It is a comprehensive review of all known scientific research on why we now are certain, that natural immunity will be the policy of close to every nation on Earth, whether you choose the vaccination route, or not. It is a long article, with a link to each piece of research backing the article thesis:

Covid-19: Why are we Ignoring Infection-Acquired Immunity?

....the section on long-lasting protection, Comparisons With Vaccine-induced Immunity, Caution Over Boosters and now, you having read all the supporting research linked in the article, the most poignant section, the future of Public Health Policy will drive home how we should proceed in the future with natural immunity policy IF inconvenient science does not continue to be sidelined.

[silversand]

Moisheh wrote:
Did you have any trouble getting a test that would still be valid when you crossed?

Moisheh:

No problem getting an testing appointment for RAT / NAAT / PCR tests in Florida, and, along our entire route home (every State from Florida to New York). The pharmacies we have gone into calendars and web portals on show EASY access, and very open times. We have been probing wait times and delays for a few weeks now. I can only infer that few if anyone are getting tests along or route home (this may vary spatially/temporally across the USA). Just be aware that the Walgreens testing portal blanks out their test schedule on "the present day". So, for example, if you want to book a NAAT, RAT, or PCR test on the same day you log into their portal, you will have to book a time slot the day after.

[silversand]

pianotuna wrote:
AriveCan is a nasty piece of code. It won't run on older Android devices. At Christmas time it would also not run on iphones

....you can say that again! More and more Canadian snowbirds reporting back to me are only holding their cell phones out the window so that the border agent can read the negative test(s) for the passengers. That is. But testing is now a moot point crossing back. April 1st.

[Canuck_Travelle]

pianotuna wrote:
AriveCan is a nasty piece of code. It won't run on older Android devices. At Christmas time it would also not run on iphones.

Silly requirement, it's all about control, the authorities just can't give that up, it diminishes their job responsibilities.

[pianotuna]

AriveCan is a nasty piece of code. It won't run on older Android devices. At Christmas time it would also not run on iphones.