A Lesson in Torque, Steam vrs Diesel

[Dale_Traveling]

John Deere Tractor vs. 1800s Steam Tractor

Can't dispute the results.

[Daveinet]

mowermech wrote:
" Steam was more efficient than diesel/electric, however the steam engines were not capable of handling the grades."

Seems to me some years ago, when the diesel/electric were really taking over on the railroads, there was one grade in Colorado where they kept one steam engine (one of the HUGE ones, possibly a Malley) in service to help push the diesel/electrics over the grade. I could be wrong, it happens frequently, but I remember reading about it

Yes, very likely, but don't miss the subtle difference. Steam does not have the RPM range. Either it was geared for speed, or geared for torque. It could not do both. So while they may have used an old steam engine to help the diesel electric, that particular steam engine would be traveling slowly.

[Mr_Mark1]

Way, way off topic. In 1991, we took a train trip on the Royal Scotsman in Scotland. The train trip was a one week adventure on the old restored train cars. Half the trip was with a normal engine and the other half was with a early 1900's steam engine.

What a treat with the smoke and steam coming out of that huge stack! And the sound... chug chug chug (going faster)... chug chug chug chug.......

Well, we decided to stand on the back platform just while we started to go through a tunnel. OMG, the fumes, steam and oil that comes out of the stack was amazing and messy.

It was a fun trip through the lowlands to the highlands.... all nights were black tie and each cabin had beautiful wood with a private bath. It was in October of that year so it was fairly cool.

Boy, that engine was huge.

MM.

[mowermech]

" Steam was more efficient than diesel/electric, however the steam engines were not capable of handling the grades."

Seems to me some years ago, when the diesel/electric were really taking over on the railroads, there was one grade in Colorado where they kept one steam engine (one of the HUGE ones, possibly a Malley) in service to help push the diesel/electrics over the grade. I could be wrong, it happens frequently, but I remember reading about it.

I haven't watched the video, but I have watched the tractor pulls at a local antique tractor show. ALL of the restored gas and diesel tractors do quite well, all things considered, but the only thing that stopped the steam tractor was he ran out of field room. The sled never even slowed him down, while it STOPPED all the other tractors!

[ArchHoagland]

Looked to me more like a lesson in traction vs non-traction.

Would have been better if done on a cog type arrangement where both vehicles had the same traction.

[holstein13]

I'd like to point out that the tow bar made it impossible for the John Deere to win. Whenever he moved forward it would lift up his rear end.

To be fair, the tow bar would have to be level. Also, the John Deere was not in four wheel drive mode for whatever reason.

[Gonzo42]

At one point in the past, Bill Lear was developing a steam car to compete in the Indy 500. The liquid/gas component was very special and was supposed to be almost 100% recovered.

I don't think he ever got it perfected.

[wny_pat1]

It's all about gear reduction (torque), not horse power. A 72 to 1 gear reduction coupled to a 500 pound, 8 HP gas engine, 4 wheel drive tractor will drag a 2000 pound log up a 20 percent grade. See what will happen with the same engine on a lawn tractor with stock gearing. It will sit there and spin.

[wa8yxm]

Oh how about this.... In one of the major Canals (Panama I think) normally the boats are pulled through the locks by a Steam Donkey.. This engine, as I said above, develops maximum torque at dead stall, (So long as it does not stall at top (or bottom) dead center that is and with a multi-piston engine you can prevent that by having them indexed).

The Steam engine broke down so they used a big Cat, (Caterpillar Tractor) This diesel had several times the HP of the steam engine, but alas, could not pull the boats till they got it some help.. You see, to get enough torque it had to be moving too fast, and...

There are many difference between a steam engine and an internal combustion,, I really think Steam has major advantages... Back when they were made, Steam powered cars were very impressive.. They do not get stuck in mud or on snow/ice like gasoline/diesel do since, Again max torque (if needed) is at dead stall. So you can apply just a touch of steam and not spin the tires.. Can't do that with gas all that easy.

They can also easily go 100+MPH if you open the valve.

[Daveinet]

Dale.Traveling wrote:
John Deere Tractor vs. 1800s Steam Tractor

Can't dispute the results.

No, but we sure can dispute your premise. It has nothing to do with the engine characteristics, and has everything to do with shear weight.

A real comparison would be to put each tractor in a 100 acre field with a plow and see which one is done first. HP is the measure of work being done. 18 HP will not do much work. When presenting facts, it is wise to remember history. The failure of the steam engine was because it could either be set up for speed, or torque not both. Steam was more efficient than diesel/electric, however the steam engines were not capable of handling the grades. When they would gear them for speed, they would have to add extra engines during certain parts of their runs, because they could not pull the grades.

[AYRTIME]

And the traction engine was stock!

[BB_TX]

Doesn't prove anything at all. But interesting to watch never the less.

[hmknightnc]

grampachet wrote:
Hey guys it was set up, the steam was pulling up on the JD of course he didn't have good traction.

Good enough traction to dig a hole and kill the engine several times. That was rather cool to watch

[grampachet]

Hey guys it was set up, the steam was pulling up on the JD of course he didn't have good traction.

[ChooChooMan74]

wa8yxm wrote:
Internal combustion engines need to be running to develop maximum torque.

Steam engines generate max torque at dead stall.. This is why they were used for things like pulling trains,, A steam engine with a good engineer, and less you are looking out the window you won't know when the train starts moving.

Been there.. Listened to folks asking "Are we moving yet" (Looked out the window).

Diesel-lectric are good. but they are not that good.

They still teach us to look out the window when starting, especially on a grade. One good thing about the diesel electrics today is traction control.