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building new campground

gasjarvi
Explorer
Explorer
My husband, son and I are thinking of building a small, no frills campground on our farm after we get out of dairying later this month. We want to cater to the RVers looking for a safe, comfortable spot to overnight. We do not want to have seasonals nor resident campers. We will start with level sights with water and electric and a dump station and a small bathhouse for $30 a night. Large pull thrus will be located in a grassy field just as you come into the park. Sites for longer stays will be set back further with trees and bushes around. The campground will be located behind our farm brewery. We are located 8 miles from the NYS Thruway in Central NY. I was wondering if I could get any feedback on this idea and some suggestions on what we could/should offer.
75 REPLIES 75

gasjarvi
Explorer
Explorer
Yes, we do have an operating farm brewery on the property right now. It is open on weekends year round.

I agree with you, time2roll

time2roll
Explorer II
Explorer II
For overnighters I would go with 30 amp electric only and a central hose bib. No shower house, no club house, no dump, no swimming pool. Just a place to get a quiet night of rest. Probably cut your price a bit and see where it goes. You can always add more amenities but once that money is spent and this thing never takes off it could just be a sink hole. If it does take off you can keep your overnight section and start building a full service section.

mike_brez
Explorer
Explorer
Do you have a beer brewery up and running now?
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gasjarvi
Explorer
Explorer
I appreciate the replies and advise. As I said, we are only in the thinking about it/planning stages. So much depends on how we come out after the sale of the cows, some of our land and some equipment. As dairy farmers we are used to repairing things daily (after all, we have FORD tractors), and dealing with crisis and hired help. My husband and I spend our winters in our mh down south by volunteering at Georgia State Parks for the last 9 years and most recently have been camp hosts in Florida State Parks. We are well aware of what the general public is like and have seen quite a few interesting things already.
Our plan is to start small and every year invest a little more but to never get so big that we can't handle it as a family. We are aware that we will never "get rich quick" from this venture but would just like it to support our son and his son in the future. We have checked out zoning, NY and Dept. of Health regulations and are good with all that. My husband and son can do most of the site work so running the electric, putting in the dump station and drilling our well would be most of the expense to start.
We are 45 minutes from Cooperstown so I am sure we can draw campers for that week; 20 minutes from Utica and the Boilmaker race in July, 40 minutes from Turning Stone Casino, 10 minutes from the Erie Canal and an hour from Old Forge in the Adirondacks.
Like I said, it is just a thought at this time.

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
Keithk3628 wrote:

Westernrvparkowner

I have always enjoyed reading your posts and advice like this one, I would like to stay at your park one day and meet you, but if you don't mind will you answer a question. Do you regret starting your park or are you very happy with the decision.

I always thought if I had the cash I would love to build an RV park, retired now I don't see the cash coming in unless I were to win the lottery, and I would have to but a ticket first, Not.

Thanks for your time, Keith
No regrets about being in the business. I didn't build from scratch, always bought existing. That eliminates a whole bunch of hurdles. Only downside is you have to accept the fact there will be compromises from your ideal vision.
It is a business, not an extended vacation. You have to accept the fact you cannot please everyone. And there are days the general public comes close to driving you crazy. I have made dozens upon dozens of friends and have the pleasure of meeting thousands of interesting people. And I have met a few who are on the express train to Satanville.
I have to reiterate it is a business. Some people have the vision it is camping and you are getting paid. Nothing is further from the truth. While the campers are enjoying themselves the park the owner is enjoying QuickbooKs, preparing the quarterly tax payment or maybe in a controlled panic hopeful that Roto Rooter can clear the sewer line and it won't be necessary to spend $5000 digging up and replacing a collapsed line. Owning a park is like working on the assembly line making golf clubs, at work you don't enjoy the end product.

Keithk3628
Explorer
Explorer
westernrvparkowner wrote:
ferndaleflyer wrote:
Never saw anyone succeed listening to nay sayers. I saw one pop up 3 years ago near my summer cabin. Maybe 10 sites and I have never seen an empty spot there. I don't know how people found it as it is very isolated and not near anything. But trust me you build it and they will come. Me included.
20% of new businesses fail in the first year, 50% fail within 5 years and 66% do not make it 10 years. It is estimated that 80% of those failures were do to cash flow issues. As has been said many times, failure to plan is planning to fail. No one has posted a solid don't do it, but many have posted potential pitfalls they may not have considered.
You have given a alternative to extensive research with "build it and they will come" . It will save them a bunch of time and money upfront. And I guess hope and faith could be considered a business plan. Hopefully nobody is building a poorhouse nearby because if they are it would guarantee "Build it and they will come" will have a 50% success rate and my bet would be on the poorhouse.


Westernrvparkowner

I have always enjoyed reading your posts and advice like this one, I would like to stay at your park one day and meet you, but if you don't mind will you answer a question. Do you regret starting your park or are you very happy with the decision.

I always thought if I had the cash I would love to build an RV park, retired now I don't see the cash coming in unless I were to win the lottery, and I would have to but a ticket first, Not.

Thanks for your time, Keith

Bill_Satellite
Explorer II
Explorer II
As a destination park, 8 miles off the highway is no big deal. Been there, done that, MANY times. My response was to the question about an overnight stop while trying to get from point A to point B. For that, I am looking for an easy on-off pull-through where I can keep the toad connected and just plug in. I am not interested in ANY facilities or lakes or sight-seeing. I just want to pull in, plug in and have a drink before dinner. We will be out early the next morning and likely never leave the coach.
I am not traveling 8 miles for an over-nighter!
What I post is my 2 cents and nothing more. Please don't read anything into my post that's not there. If you disagree, that's OK.
Can't we all just get along?

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
ferndaleflyer wrote:
Never saw anyone succeed listening to nay sayers. I saw one pop up 3 years ago near my summer cabin. Maybe 10 sites and I have never seen an empty spot there. I don't know how people found it as it is very isolated and not near anything. But trust me you build it and they will come. Me included.
20% of new businesses fail in the first year, 50% fail within 5 years and 66% do not make it 10 years. It is estimated that 80% of those failures were do to cash flow issues. As has been said many times, failure to plan is planning to fail. No one has posted a solid don't do it, but many have posted potential pitfalls they may not have considered.
You have given a alternative to extensive research with "build it and they will come" . It will save them a bunch of time and money upfront. And I guess hope and faith could be considered a business plan. Hopefully nobody is building a poorhouse nearby because if they are it would guarantee "Build it and they will come" will have a 50% success rate and my bet would be on the poorhouse.

ferndaleflyer
Explorer III
Explorer III
double post

ferndaleflyer
Explorer III
Explorer III
Never saw anyone succeed listening to nay sayers. I saw one pop up 3 years ago near my summer cabin. Maybe 10 sites and I have never seen an empty spot there. I don't know how people found it as it is very isolated and not near anything. But trust me you build it and they will come. Me included.

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
FIRE UP wrote:
westernrvparkowner wrote:
One thing being overlooked by all the respondents who would gladly travel 8 miles off the interstate for a nice, clean, safe, quiet, pretty, laid back etc. park is how in the heck can the park owner convey that information to a transiting RVer? A small, new park will require years, plural, to build up enough reviews for them to be a factor people use to choose a park. If you go to Campgroundreviews.com you see that medium size parks (75 sites or so) generally have about 100 reviews and that is over the course of the 10 or 15 years that site has been in business. Same for Google.
And what if one of those early reviews for that new park was something along the lines of "not much here, Just a place to park. 6 out 10 rating". It would be truthful, but would sure hurt the business because many people go by the score and nothing in a review like that screams "stay here".
The other ways people find parks are guidebooks, websites, signage and referrals. Guidebooks are expensive to advertise in and people take any ad with a grain of salt. Books are generally replaced on about a 5 year cycle, so after opening your park, placing your ad and having the new book come out it will be years before even half the people who use books have a book with your ad. On top of that, paper books are a seriously declining market. Closely related is people now use their GPS systems to find parks and for a new park to appear in the GPS software requires years and luck. Referrals also take years upon years to spread.
Websites are another possibility, but as with guidebook ads, people are very skeptical of what is being presented. Plus, how many people racing down the highway spend the time to more than glance at a park's website when just overnighting.
Signage is the way many parks get overnighters, but signs at 65 MPH cannot convey information beyond "RV Park ahead, Take this exit".
If this park is built, advertising and patience is how they are going to build the business. It just isn't going to have the ability to be an overnight success that a park in either a high traffic area or a destination area might achieve. In business, time is money, so I hope the builders don't give up their day jobs.


Word of mouth advertising is, has been, and always will be, a very, very good form of advertising and notification. While it may take a while for the OP's newly developed camp ground to take hold, once the word get's out, folks that care about that kind of environment when they're stopping for even one night, will spread the word. It's too bad the $%&*@ Government has to get its hands on everything, even when someone is willing to devote their own property to weary travelers.
Scott
You are right that it takes time for word of mouth to spread. It will take infinitely longer to spread about a park that is just an overnight stay. I mean, what are the odds that someone planning a trip to the east coast from Denver will run into someone that has heard of a park in Ilion, New York? The odds are that traveler didn't even decide where to stop until the afternoon of that stay. Even with destination parks, where there is a nexus of interest, word doesn't spread overnight.
As for the government, everyone hates regulations until the lack of those regulations causes them problems. Government oversight means someone building an RV park next to your property won't build a sewage system that contaminates your well. It means when you stop at an RV park the Potable water won't give you Montezuma's revenge. It means that fire and emergency personnel can access you if you have a problem. It means that when you buy your little slice of heaven in the country a mobile home park won't suddenly pop up next door. It would be great if someone could suddenly separate good rules from bad, but I am not holding my breath.

wallynm
Explorer
Explorer
To find out what is in your area check out this site.

RV Park review


Make sure you get registered with them so folks can post reviews on you facility!

gasjarvi wrote:
My husband, son and I are thinking of building a small, no frills campground on our farm after we get out of dairying later this month. We want to cater to the RVers looking for a safe, comfortable spot to overnight. We do not want to have seasonals nor resident campers. We will start with level sights with water and electric and a dump station and a small bathhouse for $30 a night. Large pull thrus will be located in a grassy field just as you come into the park. Sites for longer stays will be set back further with trees and bushes around. The campground will be located behind our farm brewery. We are located 8 miles from the NYS Thruway in Central NY. I was wondering if I could get any feedback on this idea and some suggestions on what we could/should offer.
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FIRE_UP
Explorer
Explorer
westernrvparkowner wrote:
One thing being overlooked by all the respondents who would gladly travel 8 miles off the interstate for a nice, clean, safe, quiet, pretty, laid back etc. park is how in the heck can the park owner convey that information to a transiting RVer? A small, new park will require years, plural, to build up enough reviews for them to be a factor people use to choose a park. If you go to Campgroundreviews.com you see that medium size parks (75 sites or so) generally have about 100 reviews and that is over the course of the 10 or 15 years that site has been in business. Same for Google.
And what if one of those early reviews for that new park was something along the lines of "not much here, Just a place to park. 6 out 10 rating". It would be truthful, but would sure hurt the business because many people go by the score and nothing in a review like that screams "stay here".
The other ways people find parks are guidebooks, websites, signage and referrals. Guidebooks are expensive to advertise in and people take any ad with a grain of salt. Books are generally replaced on about a 5 year cycle, so after opening your park, placing your ad and having the new book come out it will be years before even half the people who use books have a book with your ad. On top of that, paper books are a seriously declining market. Closely related is people now use their GPS systems to find parks and for a new park to appear in the GPS software requires years and luck. Referrals also take years upon years to spread.
Websites are another possibility, but as with guidebook ads, people are very skeptical of what is being presented. Plus, how many people racing down the highway spend the time to more than glance at a park's website when just overnighting.
Signage is the way many parks get overnighters, but signs at 65 MPH cannot convey information beyond "RV Park ahead, Take this exit".
If this park is built, advertising and patience is how they are going to build the business. It just isn't going to have the ability to be an overnight success that a park in either a high traffic area or a destination area might achieve. In business, time is money, so I hope the builders don't give up their day jobs.


Word of mouth advertising is, has been, and always will be, a very, very good form of advertising and notification. While it may take a while for the OP's newly developed camp ground to take hold, once the word get's out, folks that care about that kind of environment when they're stopping for even one night, will spread the word. It's too bad the $%&*@ Government has to get its hands on everything, even when someone is willing to devote their own property to weary travelers.
Scott
Scott and Karla
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westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
One thing being overlooked by all the respondents who would gladly travel 8 miles off the interstate for a nice, clean, safe, quiet, pretty, laid back etc. park is how in the heck can the park owner convey that information to a transiting RVer? A small, new park will require years, plural, to build up enough reviews for them to be a factor people use to choose a park. If you go to Campgroundreviews.com you see that medium size parks (75 sites or so) generally have about 100 reviews and that is over the course of the 10 or 15 years that site has been in business. Same for Google.
And what if one of those early reviews for that new park was something along the lines of "not much here, Just a place to park. 6 out 10 rating". It would be truthful, but would sure hurt the business because many people go by the score and nothing in a review like that screams "stay here".
The other ways people find parks are guidebooks, websites, signage and referrals. Guidebooks are expensive to advertise in and people take any ad with a grain of salt. Books are generally replaced on about a 5 year cycle, so after opening your park, placing your ad and having the new book come out it will be years before even half the people who use books have a book with your ad. On top of that, paper books are a seriously declining market. Closely related is people now use their GPS systems to find parks and for a new park to appear in the GPS software requires years and luck. Referrals also take years upon years to spread.
Websites are another possibility, but as with guidebook ads, people are very skeptical of what is being presented. Plus, how many people racing down the highway spend the time to more than glance at a park's website when just overnighting.
Signage is the way many parks get overnighters, but signs at 65 MPH cannot convey information beyond "RV Park ahead, Take this exit".
If this park is built, advertising and patience is how they are going to build the business. It just isn't going to have the ability to be an overnight success that a park in either a high traffic area or a destination area might achieve. In business, time is money, so I hope the builders don't give up their day jobs.

mikim
Explorer
Explorer
There are numerous consultants by doing a Google search, it can be expensive for a consultant, but they will tell you if it is feasible.

http://stavesconsulting.com/