Generators - brand differences?

[DryCreek]

OK, our search for a used Class A is becoming narrower each day. After driving all over, I think that there are two fairly close to us that fit our needs and budget:

The leader is:
2007 Damon Daybreak
Next runner up is:
2006 Winnebago Sightseer

Both are the ideal within our length (30 to 34 footish), made in the midpoint of the 2K model year, and have seatbelts in the dinette booth in case we take friends or relatives along for an extended day trip.

Each of the two we've narrowed it down to have pluses and minuses. One thing I hadn't come across before was the brand of generator being anything other than Onan. The Damon has a Generac Guardian 4800 with 113 hours, and the Winnebago has the Onan 4000 with 503 hours. Does brand really make a difference? I had almost convinced myself to only look for coaches built on the Workhorse chassis because I prefer low-end gruntlike torque that can be produced by a big displacement V-8, but as yuo can see I've settled on two built on the Ford F-53 chassis with the V-10. So, I can get over stereotyped brand loyalty. I've just never run across Generac branded gensets in an RV. I've only ever noticed the Onan brand name. I have seen a bit of the Generac brand in home and commercial standby generator service though. Is there really enough of a difference to sway anyone's choice between coach brands, given all other things are pretty much the same (well, except for mileage and genset hours)?

My wife is a bit uncomfortable with the higher miles on the Winnie (74K vs. 17K), but I like their fiberglass roof over the TPO covered luaun roof of the Damon. Of course, either choice for roofing is much better than the years of RV's we've owned with the EPDM covered roof, and those were far better than the metal seamed roof on the earliest units we owned (i.e. '67 Shasta Ultralight 13' or the 1974 Terry)..

When we go look again this weekend, I plan to have them start the generators in both units and listen to them inside and outside of the coach. We will probably test drive those units too. For added info - the Winnie also has a Banks kit installed (full or?) and the non-ducted AC isn't hard-wired in, but is plugged in separately. According to the brochure I found online, I think that the unit is 30 amp, just like the Damon. I don't see being able to run both A/Cs with that.

So, opinions? I'm all ears at this stage of the search. And, I'm about worn down from looking at so many units......

[DryCreek]

AdequateRV wrote:
Congrats on your new purchase! Winnebago enjoys a much better reputation on this forum than Damon.

Your electrical setup is quite common. I have owned two class A motor homes (99 Rexhall, 2007 Georgetown). Both have the same setup. It is not hard to remember to keep it plugged into the generator while underway. It is always plugged in, either to the generator or the power pole. It saves the manufacturer from wiring in a transfer switch. I tell myself that is eliminates one part that can fail.

I too have added a second air conditioner with its own electrical circuit to my '99. I never came across a power pole that did not have both a 30A and 20A plug. Worked well. It was deemed necessary by the DW after the August trip to Lake of the Ozarks where the inside of the MH did not get below 85 the entire trip.

You should be able to wire another 20A circuit from your generator to your electrical bay so you can plug in your 2nd air conditioner to the generator while underway. I believe all generators of that size are wound with two separate 115V circuits. Mine was a generac, if I recall correctly.

Thanks for the info! Now I don't feel like I may have bought a pig in a poke with some strange power setup.

By the way, after exercising very little "Google-Fu", I figured out what that AutoTrac thingy was. It is actually a TruCenter steering control unit from Blue Ox

TruCenter

[AdequateRV]

Congrats on your new purchase! Winnebago enjoys a much better reputation on this forum than Damon.

Your electrical setup is quite common. I have owned two class A motor homes (99 Rexhall, 2007 Georgetown). Both have the same setup. It is not hard to remember to keep it plugged into the generator while underway. It is always plugged in, either to the generator or the power pole. It saves the manufacturer from wiring in a transfer switch. I tell myself that is eliminates one part that can fail.

I too have added a second air conditioner with its own electrical circuit to my '99. I never came across a power pole that did not have both a 30A and 20A plug. Worked well. It was deemed necessary by the DW after the August trip to Lake of the Ozarks where the inside of the MH did not get below 85 the entire trip.

You should be able to wire another 20A circuit from your generator to your electrical bay so you can plug in your 2nd air conditioner to the generator while underway. I believe all generators of that size are wound with two separate 115V circuits. Mine was a generac, if I recall correctly.

[DryCreek]

The die has been cast.....

And our choice? The Winnie for the win!

As the layouts were nearly identical, both on a 2006 MY Ford F-53 chassis (3-valve), our selection had more to do with build quality, my "likes" (fiberglass roof, Banks Power System installed) and finally, a known starting point. The Damon, while one model year newer, and with a third of the number of miles left me wondering about some things. There wasn't any service information available. On the Winnie, the PO has records showing service every 5K miles, obvious attention to the unit, and the difference between the two gensets for in-coach noise levels was quite appreciable. The Damon had been on the lot for nine months. It needed six new tires, and the consignor wasn't going to lower the price any further (it is financed, asking price puts it underwater). Also the revelation that it came onto the lots with a howling rear differential (which was fixed) made me wonder how well that unit had been maintained. It was being sold due to a divorce. We just had an "iffy" feeling about the deal. I have to admit, it was hard to not choose the unit that still had that new motor home smell to it.

So, that is not to say that there weren't some odd things about the Winnie though. As small as that coach was, the PO had added a brand new unducted 13,500 btu AC in the forward vent. It was neatly installed and the wiring is run through the ceiling - I don't know if it was prewired from the factory. Since the coach is 30 amp service, a separate power cord (20 amp) is located in the electrical bay. So, if you get too warm at a location where you have hookups, you string that separate cord out to the pedestal and plug it in to power up the second AC unit. At first I was thinking that maybe the dash AC had gone out and this was some half-asked jury rigging, but the salesman said the PO just liked to be able to stay cool while out in the full sun. That made sense to me. The dash AC worked while we were on the test drive. The other thing that seemed odd was that in the electrical bay there is a 30 amp female plug. It appears that in order to power the coach from the generator you have to plug the coach feed into that receptacle. I don't know if that was how the system was originally designed to work, but I looked at the distribution box everything was wired through and it all appears to meet code (NEMA, IEEE) and was done in a workmanlike fashion. I was told that this used to be a fairly common setup for Class C's. I guess that as long as I remember to plug the coach cord up before we get underway we'll be OK if we start the generator while on the road.

We bought through PPL in Cleburne. You can see the links to the units we had narrowed our choices down to in my first post.

So, what really drove our choice was build quality. For someone like me, that sounds very subjective and arbitrary. Any salesman for the brand you're looking at can point out features that the other coach doesn't have. Well, since there is absolutely no sales pressure at a PPL lot, the unit sells itself. Some of the things we liked in the Winnie were the double pane glass windows, the tanks sensors being mounted on the outside of the tank, the Day/Night shades (vice mini blinds), more sturdier cabinets and the dinette was more robust where the seatbacks were. On the Damon they were so flimsy that we thought they may break if you reared back to hard in them. Yes, the Damon had one pass-through storage area all the way in the back, but it wasn't large enough to carry a spare (mounted or not). You may have been able to wrangle one into the space above the LPG tank, but it would have been a challenge. The Winnie had a dedicated compartment for a mounted spare (and one in there to boot). I will admit though that it wasn't very well thought out - the compartment is chest high in the bedroom slide (under head of bed). I am going to come up with some type of narrow ramp to help with that. I will readily admit that I liked the dashboard layout of the Damon far more than the Winnie.

Anyway, we held our breath and made our choice over a leisurely lunch at an Italian restaurant. I still don't know how we went from solidly sold on the Damon to opting for the Winnie. A human mind is a complicated thing apparently - and relies on intuition for complicated decisions. Wish us luck! Oh, and the PO was selling the unit to upgrade. I wish him the best of luck with his search and selection. May he find a 40 footer with and ISX and all the bells and whistles (if that's what he wants).

BTW - what is an "AutoTrac" system? There is an adjustment on the dash for it. I looked and there appears to be some type of electrical connection running to a motor mounted to what appears to be a steering damper of some sort. It reminded me of a C-Band satellite dish mover, or gate opener.

ETA - I just wanted to add that I am aware of the fact that I am comparing entry-level coaches from both manufacturers.

[Sandia_Man]

Make sure either genny runs extensively under significant load, I wouldn't make our final decision on 10 year old rigs solely based on the brand of onboard generator. For the record, our Onan 4000 genny has been a real workhorse over the last decade with zero issues in over 1K hours of heavy demand usage. Just oil changes and a couple of air filters is all I have invested thus far. Still has the original fuel filter and all we use is the cheapest gas we can find as with all of our vehicles. With the age of those rigs, I'd be more leary of the Generac with such low hours as that can be a detriment to their ability to provide reliable service over the long haul. Our Onan loves nothing more than to perform it's duty powering our entire rig as if plugged into shorepower, and has done so no matter if it's over 100 degrees or with temps in the single digits.

[Gjac]

I guess every one has different requirements in choosing a MH. I would not let the roof or genset be one of them. For me storage and FW capacity is more important. Layout or floor plan, full body paint over decals next. Refer in a non slide non residential, WH chassis over Ford, HWH levelers over Lipert would be last. I have not found a MH yet with all my requirements let alone likes or nice to haves. The Damon will have several pass tru storage bays, and depending on model may have a large pass thru in rear, has less mileage and would be my choice over the Sightseer if the overall condition was equal.

[DryCreek]

wa8yxm wrote:
Both ONAN and Generac are good brands.. Now ONAN Is perhaps the more common generator in the RV world. and Generac in the non-mobile world, but the fact is both are top rated and I'd have no qualms about either in either service.

I do have one suggestion: If your RV is a 50 amp, install at least one TT-30 outlet.. This should be enough (I put in two, and a twist lock)
RV generators may be 120 volt only... (my ONAN is) but I put one on each leg. This means that I can daisy feed an RV on either side of me (Done it a few times) but due to one more outlet I was also able to daisy feed my house

on the house I put in a proper INLET (30 amp) and a Proper Generator transfer panel.

Plugged the custom made extension cord into house, uncoiled as i walked to RV, plugged in, "installed" the Gen-Turi (Well put it on, the Install had been done earlier) pushed the buttons in the approve patteren, waited in the RV for the transfer switch to do it's clunk.. then to the basement and the transfer panel

Click: Lights
Click: Heat (it was after all 12/31/2005)
Click click and a bunch more clicks
More lights, computer and modem, TV and Radio, Microwave, Fride, Freezer and more.

The mods and cord and power panel.. Well they totaled (along with some other improvements) about a thousand dollars

Warm wife... Priceless.

Thanks for the reassurance. We are out the door once the wife finishes her hair. The units we are looking at are both 30 amp - which is great since I don't want to have to re-run 50 amp service to our RV pad. It is quite a run from the power pole up there. It has the standard 30 amp RV plug. No adapters needed, and rated circuit breaker and cabling to boot. I work in the power generation field, so I am a stickler for IEEE compliance.

As for our house, I have a combo welder/generator for that, and another 4.5 KW generator just for the well house.

[wa8yxm]

Both ONAN and Generac are good brands.. Now ONAN Is perhaps the more common generator in the RV world. and Generac in the non-mobile world, but the fact is both are top rated and I'd have no qualms about either in either service.

I do have one suggestion: If your RV is a 50 amp, install at least one TT-30 outlet.. This should be enough (I put in two, and a twist lock)
RV generators may be 120 volt only... (my ONAN is) but I put one on each leg. This means that I can daisy feed an RV on either side of me (Done it a few times) but due to one more outlet I was also able to daisy feed my house

on the house I put in a proper INLET (30 amp) and a Proper Generator transfer panel.

Plugged the custom made extension cord into house, uncoiled as i walked to RV, plugged in, "installed" the Gen-Turi (Well put it on, the Install had been done earlier) pushed the buttons in the approve patteren, waited in the RV for the transfer switch to do it's clunk.. then to the basement and the transfer panel

Click: Lights
Click: Heat (it was after all 12/31/2005)
Click click and a bunch more clicks
More lights, computer and modem, TV and Radio, Microwave, Fride, Freezer and more.

The mods and cord and power panel.. Well they totaled (along with some other improvements) about a thousand dollars

Warm wife... Priceless.

[DryCreek]

Thanks,
Good to hear that most folks find the Generac Guardian units to at least be serviceable. I realize that their industrial power units are built to a whole different specification than their consumer power units are, that's why I mentioned that their top-line units are Cummins powered. I did forget to mention that I am partial to Cummins since we've owned a few in the trucks we use for hauling hay, cattle and equipment around our place. Still, those leased units pale in size to our emergency diesel generators that are rated for 10K hp and 7MW each!

I am also more inclined to buy the Winnebago based on their track record and the fact that they use a fiberglass roof vice the TPO on the Damon. I haven't had a chance to go through the Winnie yet, it just came on the lot this week. We have been through the Damon once before, and it is in great shape, but that's to be expected based on its little use.

Off to check out those units. Wish me luck.

BTW, what does "LCRA" stand for?

Propane RV generators - a device looking for a reason to exist (IMHO)......

[DryCreek]

A Good Cigar wrote:
Are you in an area of Texas that gets high summer temperatures? I'm assuming by the wattage of these two gennies that these motorhomes only have one rooftop A/C on each, for a Class A in warmer climates that A/C unit may not be up to keeping your passengers cool...:E

Yes, the two units we have narrowed our search down to have 30 amp service and a single rooftop AC. But, those units are 29 and 30 foot in length, so that should be "just adequate" for our summers here. We just sold our 30' fifth wheeler, a Fleetwood Terry Quantum. It had a single AC unit and while it wouldn't freeze you out, it kept the coach comfortable. That was one of the reasons for looking in the shorter class A range - we like the state parks and have found that 30 foot is about the largest unit you can have and still find a spot in any park with hookups. That, and our covered RV pad is already wired for 30 amps and is only 35'10" in length. Other reasons we were looking for a "shorty" include better tow performance, easier to get through the small town squares we drive through, and easier to keep up overall. There are only two of us, and Reno the dog.

[smlranger]

IMO, I would be less inclined to make the decision based on the brand of generator and more likely to lean to the Winnebago. As noted, the absolute condition of the two rigs and how they were maintained is the most important factor. Assuming either is in a condition that is satisfactory to you, I think Winnebago (in those years) made a better quality coach than Damon/Thor. Also, since you sound inclined to do your own repairs/maintenance, Winnebago has all the technical data you'd ever need for any coach they ever made on their website.

[1971duster340]

Mileage of either unit wouldn't both me. Onan is in a league of it's own, but Generac wouldn't sway me away. Don't get too convinced comparing the power utility models with the consumer models. They are built for completely different torture. I'd be concerned how well Thor is supporting Damon units built before the fall...especially the proprietary parts. With units 8+yrs, it comes down to how has THAT particular RV stood up....LCRA?

[old_guy]

we have worked on many onan's that blew up. mainly just replaced them. fortunately for customers they were still under warranty

[Preacher_Man]

We killed 2 Onan 4000's...complete junk because they don't have an oil pump. Replaced the 2nd one with an Onan 5500 EFI model, best decision we ever made!

[MrWizard]

Onan, Kolher, Genirac, even Honda and a few other brands, made Rv and Marine gensets

many different ones