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Need an opinion

dshinnick
Explorer
Explorer
We have a 2005 Holiday Rambler Ambassador 40' DP. The whole coach, but especially the exterior metal and paint, are in really beautiful condition. We get comments on it rather regularly. The almost-all gold colored paint doesn't seem faded, I treat it with a UV protectant, and it looks great.

- History: the wife was driving about three years ago and as we entered a park she got too close to a gate post and gouged one compartment door on the driver's side. We took it to a shop in Indiana, paid about $1,000, and the fix is perfect. You couldn't then, nor can you now, tell which door had been damaged.

- Current: I was driving a few months ago, just about to pass through a highway toll booth, and was carefully navigating through the concrete barriers which "guide" cars up to the booth. I thought I was doing a good job until I got to my park and saw that I had brushed up against the barrier on the passenger side. There was a scuff and light scratch about 10 feet long along about four of the compartment doors. I could feel the scratch by rubbing my hand across it, but it was nowhere near a "gouge". Just a moderate scratch, though it would require some filling and sanding.

Ok, we left Asheville, NC and headed west toward Knoxville. I googled and found an RV Collision Center near Knoxville. I visited it and found that it was a full-blown professional (appearing) service center. Large, probably 10 full-size RV bays, and their own paint "barn", for lack of a better word, large, temperature and contaminate controlled, with heat lights to help the drying process. And they said that they did regular jobs for my insurance company, so, feeling somewhat confident in their abilities, I gave them the job.

Skipping lots of detail here, but they had the coach for 3+ business days. When I went back to pick the coach up, I could see from thirty feet away that it was a horrible job. The new paint was too dark, I could clearly see the delineation between the new paint and the old, and the clear coat was badly applied; not smooth, but with a somewhat rough finish.

I told the guy who did it that it was clearly an unacceptable job and he didn't argue. Just complained that he'd "only" had it for three days, and that the lights in the paint barn made it look great in there, but that it didn't look as good in the sun. Interesting that he didn't call me earlier and say "Dave, the paint job didn't come out right. We're going to do it again, but I'll need more time". I'd have been fine with that. Instead, he says nothing, hoping that I'm either sight-impaired, or will just let it go.

I talked to the manager, said that it was unacceptable, and he willingly agreed to have it redone. I told him about the damage repair on the other side (see "History", above), and that that was my standard: after they're finished, I shouldn't be able to tell which doors had been damaged and repaired. I said that at least twice, so we were clear about my expectations.

As of the end of the day, as I write this, the coach is still in the paint barn, drying, I guess. The guy who did (and redid) it, and the manager, told me "It looks pretty darned good!" but they won't let me see it until tomorrow morning. Interesting that they were able to *redo* it in one day, but the first time they were pressed to do it in three.

The shop estimated almost $6k to do this job. The insurance company wrote me a check for the whole amount, which is on its way to me. I was planning on paying the shop via my credit card, and getting a few flight miles.

If it turns out that this guy was able to do a beautiful job the second time, then I make the payment, and I'm on my way. But I do not expect that. I just can't imagine a guy turning out a job like he did the first time, and then turn around and do it flawlessly the second time. Maybe he will. I'll be impressed.

So, my dilemma: what to do if the job isn't what it should be? I see two possibilities:

1. The job is just barely acceptable. Not as good as it should be, but not as glaringly bad as it was the first time. Maybe at first glance it looks okay, but if you look closely you'll see that it's been repainted.

2. The job is bad. You can see it from 20 feet away.


In the case of #1, do I pay full price? Offer half price and keep the balance as a consolation prize? I plan on selling the coach in 1-2 years and I had looked forward to seeing prospective buyers commenting on how great the body looks, and now I may not get that experience, instead having to assure them that it wasn't a bad accident, just an inadequate paint job.

In the case of #2 I clearly don't want to pay anything. But how to handle that? Just drive away? Or, put it on my credit card, pull out of the driveway and call the credit card company and cancel payment?

I'm thinking I'll need to call a local attorney in the morning after I see the coach, to see where I stand legally, and how best to proceed. I think #2 will actually be easier, if it's just obvious it's a bad job. If it's a judgement call, and I honestly think it's an inferior job but not everyone else might, that'll be harder to deal with.

Anyway, I thought I'd run it by here and see if anyone has had a similar experience, and how you handled it.

Thanks-

Dave

PS....is my expectation that I shouldn't be able to tell which doors were damaged reasonable? When you take your car in for a repair and paint job isn't that what you expect? I've talked to one fellow who thinks that may not be reasonable. Opinions?
22 REPLIES 22

johngg
Explorer
Explorer
6 grand would be a felony. Pay them. Take them to court.

Executive45
Explorer III
Explorer III
Glad it worked out. That said, a take away from this post is to get your paint codes and put em in your book....for next time....:W.....Dennis
We can do more than we think we can, but most do less than we think we do
Dennis and Debi Fourteen Years Full Timing
Monaco Executive M-45PBQ Quad Slide
525HP Cummins ISM 6 Spd Allison
2014 Chevrolet Equinox LTZ W/ ReadyBrute
CLICK HERE TO VIEW OUR TRAVEL BLOG

rgatijnet1
Explorer III
Explorer III
I'm glad everything worked out for the best for both you and the shop. Now try not to hit anything or become a target for anything else that is out there. :B

dshinnick
Explorer
Explorer
CRISIS AVERTED
---------------------

I admit, I was really surprised when my wife, who looked at it first while I cowered in the car, came back and said "It looks pretty darned good!". So I timidly worked my way over there, and....son of a gun....it looked pretty darned good. Maybe a 9.5/10, not absolutely perfect, but way, way into the acceptable range. So I worked a deal with the manager to cut the cost to cover our trouble and heartburn, whipped out the credit card, shook a couple of hands, and we were on our way. Hallelujah. I still shiver a bit over how messy it might have been had this second job not been acceptable.

Thanks for all the suggestions, y'all.

Lesson learned? Spend more time vetting a service center, especially for a large dollar job. I normally check with at least three shops, even before buying new tires, and I didn't here. You can bet I will next time.

rgatijnet1
Explorer III
Explorer III
Here is the email address for the woman at Industrial Finishes that will send you the Holiday Rambler paint formulas. b.odonnell@industrialfinishes.com

Executive45
Explorer III
Explorer III
IMO, you'll create a whole bunch of headache for yourself if you take the rig and then cancel payment. Most likely you'll lose the credit card dispute and if you cancel the check as noted, that's considered fraud in all States...I know there's tons of case law about that in California. Best spend a few $$ with an hours' attorney time before doing something foolish over a paint job.

Ok...here's hoping the redo is perfect! Have you called Monaco and had them email you the paint code sheet for YOUR vehicle? They have them or it should be in your factory book if you have it. It's always easier for the painter when those are provided. If the job is not to your satisfaction, you'll have several choices...take it "as is", negotiate a better price and take it 'as is', or have them redo it a third time. Keep in mind I doubt they will do it a fourth time...good luck..keep us posted.....Dennis
We can do more than we think we can, but most do less than we think we do
Dennis and Debi Fourteen Years Full Timing
Monaco Executive M-45PBQ Quad Slide
525HP Cummins ISM 6 Spd Allison
2014 Chevrolet Equinox LTZ W/ ReadyBrute
CLICK HERE TO VIEW OUR TRAVEL BLOG

mabynack
Explorer II
Explorer II
I bought a Dodge Aries many years ago. There was a small spot on the trunk that the dealer agreed to paint. The dropped a big dollop of mismatched paint on it. I complained and they repainted the whole trunk with a mismatched, dull coated, orange-pealed paint that looked like primer. A year later the paint pealed off the whole car and it all matched perfectly.

A good shop will have a tool that can analyze the paint and match it perfectly. Good help and someone with the know how to use the tools are hard to find.

JALLEN4
Explorer
Explorer
Gold paint is a difficult match and if it is metallic even more difficult even when relatively new. Adding to that problem is it is a ten year old paint job and no matter how you cared for it, there is a certain amount of fade involved.

While we all can appreciate your concerns, some of the solutions suggested are problematic at best. If you are not satisfied with the second attempt and write a check which you immediately cancel, in most states you are committing felony fraud. If you stop payment on a credit card, the credit card issuer will freeze the amount but there will be an investigation and the shop will have an opportunity to respond. If they are willing to try once again to match the color or contend it is "close enough" to be acceptable, you may or may not win that argument.

Bruce_Brown
Moderator
Moderator
I'd wait to see how it looks first.

As to the question of why 3 days before and 1 day now, thats easy. It took 3 days of prep before, now all they need to do is wet sand it smooth and repaint it.

Years ago I scraped a door on our Dutch Star gasser - no dents, but it wouldn't fully buff out either. I've done enough paint work over the years I wasn't too concerned, plus Newmar always supplied the master paint codes.

I ended up spraying that door 3 times before I was finally satisfied with it. The finish was always good, I just didn't like the match. The final answer was adjusting the air pressure on the paint gun. You'd be amazed at how much difference 5 PSI made - I sure was. If doing an overall it wouldn't have mattered, but being one door mixed in with 3 others it stuck out like a sore thumb - until I found what air pressure it liked.

Also on the looking good inside, that absolutely happens. Sun light and artificial light are 2 different animals. Sometimes something that looks great inside looks like **** outside, and vise-versa.

I'd give them a chance to make it right - it's your best option at this point.
There are 24 hours in every day - it all depends on how you choose to use them.
Bruce & Jill Brown
2008 Kountry Star Pusher 3910

Ivylog
Explorer III
Explorer III
I hope it looks really good today. I agree it's amazing how well a 10+ year old Monaco can still look and fortunately other than some tree limb scratches mine has never been repaired. Based on the amount of damage you described, $6K to fix sounds really high. Can you post some pictures of the before and how far up the color goes if you are not happy with the job? Monaco has the paint codes for all three colors on your coach so other than the amount of metal flake it should match fairly well.

I'm not much into perfect looks so if today it's still not perfect, but OK I would settle for a lesser amount and be on my way without a lawyer, insurance company or credit card company getting involved and spend the new found money of having fun.

I hope it's perfect as it sounds like that's very important to you... more than it would be for me and I plan on keeping mine for another 10+ years. Good Luck!
This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
Sold 04 Dynasty to our son after 14 great years.
Upgraded with a 08 HR Navigator 45โ€™...

Skid_Row_Joe
Explorer
Explorer
dshinnick wrote:
Nope. Should have, didn't. Saw the facility, seemed professional, figured they were okay.
Updates?? Are you out on the road getting this body shop work done? Name the store for a heads up to other RVers?

MURPHY55347
Explorer
Explorer
I feel your pain. Recently had our MH run into while in storage and like you damaged a compartment door and pushed in the trim underneath. Fix involved 2 colors of paint and minor body work. Job was supposed to take 3 days. Ended up taking 3 weeks. First call was he was not happy with one of the colors so he wanted to keep it longer to fix it. Told him we wanted it right and he agreed. He came across to me as being a perfectionist. They had no paint booth and just did it in the shop with poor lighting. Like you it looked good in the shop but once you got it out in the sun the color did not match and they could not totally straighten out the body. I ended up going back 3 times to look at it and kept saying "try again" which they were more than happy to do. One complicating factor was it was extremely humid and on those days they would not even attempt to paint it. The final time they even had the paint supplier come out with their color matching machine. Still not good. Bottom line for me was I just decided that it was as good as they were going to get it. I did pay them $1750 for the job and cut my losses and left. It looks OK but not up to my standards. Paint is too thick in spots and some noticeable runs. Most people probably wouldn't even notice but it pains me every time I see it. Probably be up for sale next year. In hindsight I should have taken it back to the factory in Iowa and had it fixed there. In your case I don't think not paying them is an option but I would get some advice from the insurance company

rgatijnet1
Explorer III
Explorer III
Depending on the type of paint, matching it can be quite difficult, which is why a lot of shops prefer to paint a whole section, rather than just doing a touch up. If you have metallic paint on your coach, that just makes it more difficult to match. The person doing the spray for a metallic has to either have the exact formula from the manufacturer or he has to guess at the flop. If he does not guess right, the paint will not match. If you have metallic paint, ask to speak to the gentleman that will be spraying the coach and ask him about the flop and how he has determined that it will match what is there. If he can't explain it to you, it will not match. There are true professionals and there are others that give the appearance of being a professional.

guidry
Explorer
Explorer
Id go back to the insurance company again and speak to a supervisor. Many, including mine, will make sure you are happy with the repairs or send it out to another "approved" facility to make sure the insured is satisfied with the repairs.

If that doesn't work, you have some options. Pay by credit then dispute it, pay by check and cancel it (give them the check on a Friday or Saturday just before closing), or negotiate. Either way you should next take the rig to your insurance company's approved repair facility.

Paying then canceling the check or disputing the credit charge usually makes the issue a civil issue versus criminal when taking back your own property; depending on your state laws. (I'm not an attorney so you get what you pay for in advice)

Good luck