Need help with class A purchase, please.

[huntdooly]

Hi all, I am considering a class A motorhome purchase...my first RV of any type, from a private party. It's a 2003 Pace Arrow with GM chassis. I would very much appreciate help in terms of pricing / negotiations.

These are some issues:
1. Front A/C does not work
2. Dash A/C does not work
3. There is a metal strip on vinyl floor where slide rollers go in and out.
4. A recent windshield leak, which owner has caulked.

I called an RV dealer service department re the A/C work and he quoted a ball-park figure of $3,500 for both issues for negotiation purposes. He could not tell me about the slide.

Average retail on NADA is $28,600 and low retail is $23,750. Now, does "retail" mean at a dealership or does it also include private party? What should I expect to pay for an RV in this condition? We have not physically gone to see it yet, so there might be other issues, but I would like to know how to even begin to negotiate from the start, with these issues.

I sure would appreciate all the help that I can get. Thank you in advance!

[huntdooly]

tropical36 wrote:

huntdooly wrote:

way2roll wrote:
You still haven't answered anyone what the model is. Some folks are on here are good at providing valuable information if they know the specifics.

Sorry!! I thought I had. 2003 Pace Arrow 37A.

That one should be on a W24 and what I would prefer, being the heaviest duty and not having suffered the infamous brake recall.
Still not so sure if the Allison in that year, had a parking pawl and if not, would surely have auto park. Not such a bad thing, IMO, if you're knowledgeable of the system and especially if it's the later one, with disk and a hyd. line to it, rather than a mech. cable from an actuator. That pretty much fixed the ills and then it was no longer required with Allison then installing a parking pawl and WH adding a manual foot brake. Foot pedal and no yellow knob on the dash is a clue to having a tranny parking pawl.

Thank you! They said that it had an Allison tranny.

[tropical36]

huntdooly wrote:

way2roll wrote:
You still haven't answered anyone what the model is. Some folks are on here are good at providing valuable information if they know the specifics.

Sorry!! I thought I had. 2003 Pace Arrow 37A.

That one should be on a W24 and what I would prefer, being the heaviest duty and not having suffered the infamous brake recall.
Still not so sure if the Allison in that year, had a parking pawl and if not, would surely have auto park. Not such a bad thing, IMO, if you're knowledgeable of the system and especially if it's the later one, with disk and a hyd. line to it, rather than a mech. cable from an actuator. That pretty much fixed the ills and then it was no longer required with Allison then installing a parking pawl and WH adding a manual foot brake. Foot pedal and no yellow knob on the dash is a clue to having a tranny parking pawl.

[huntdooly]

way2roll wrote:
You still haven't answered anyone what the model is. Some folks are on here are good at providing valuable information if they know the specifics.

Sorry!! I thought I had. 2003 Pace Arrow 37A.

[way2roll]

You still haven't answered anyone what the model is. Some folks are on here are good at providing valuable information if they know the specifics.

[huntdooly]

tropical36 wrote:

T18skyguy wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Book valuations on RVs are from depreciation schedules, not from actual sales like auto valuations. The RV being considered is soon to be 16 years old. I would be concerned about the condition and remaining life of things like the appliances. If the electronics haven't been replaced, they are now dinosaurs. I wouldn't consider spending $20,000 to $30,000 for a gas coach that old unless it had been updated and in tip top shape. The odds are significant that you wouldn't bleed nickels and dimes, but would hemorrhage hundred dollar bills keeping the thing on the road.

I absolutely agree. They want to get rid of it cause it's constant problems. ANY leak can be enormous money. A windshield leak will often go behind the dash down to the electronics/electrical and cause havoc, and can cost big money. Windshield leaks can be very difficult to stop. I wouldn't assume he fixed the windshield leak. If dash AC is important to you, sometimes the rubber hoses are shot, and to fix all that is usually a grand or more, if you can get the parts. Go in the rig and look for any brown stains around the vents, which would indicate water leaks. I would run away myself, but I wouldn't pay anymore than $15K max.

I'd probably give $15K if it was pretty much right and mainly because I do a lot of my own work. Still we have unanswered questions here, unless I missed some along the line.

Which chassis, P32 or W and which W if that?
If P32 are front air bags good or better yet, has after market coils, which removes them entirely?
Autopark and if so, which version and is it working properly?
Which model and if a 37A, could be the preferred W24 chassis along with an Allison tranny and the 8.1 Votec engine.
Now that's a lot for $15K and leaves room for a good bit of repair and new tires even.
Dash air fails are so common, many don't even bother repairing them anymore and just as long as your roof airs and genset work OK. We went for a total of 12yrs in two coaches without dash air and never suffered as a result of it.

It's the workhorse with Allison tranny 8.1 Vortec. But, we found another one, same engine and tranny, 5 hours from us, that has less wrong with it, said that the only thing that doesn't work is the backup camera and heated mirrors.

So we are considering that one instead. One of the stripes on it is very faded. They are asking $29,000. Seems kind of high.

[tropical36]

It's all about the money folks and not one thing else. This means right now, out of pocket or down the road. Sometimes you got to go with your gut and certainly after giving it a good once over.
This business of service records and the like are nice to have but certainly not a deal breaker.
This last one we bought especially, whereas we didn't get one bit of any records and mainly because the seller wants to remain anonymous when going through a consignment dealer.
Anyways, after 2 1/2 years gone by, I wouldn't want to sell it for what we paid for it, back then. Naturally it's even better now, than it was when we got and as always with anything that we purchase.

[Mile_High]

It will be hard to find anything 2003 that doesn't have things broke, or it wouldn't be for sale. Forget the lip service from the seller as to why it is for sale - you wouldn't get a straight story even from me.

^^^ The kind of stuff you really need to think about is what Tropical36 is pointing out ^^^ - actual design issues or preferences. The rest of it is just repairs that you have to weigh out on what it will cost to fix, or if you even want fixed.

There will be more problems believe me - they are only pointing out the ones they think you will immediately find 🙂

[tropical36]

T18skyguy wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Book valuations on RVs are from depreciation schedules, not from actual sales like auto valuations. The RV being considered is soon to be 16 years old. I would be concerned about the condition and remaining life of things like the appliances. If the electronics haven't been replaced, they are now dinosaurs. I wouldn't consider spending $20,000 to $30,000 for a gas coach that old unless it had been updated and in tip top shape. The odds are significant that you wouldn't bleed nickels and dimes, but would hemorrhage hundred dollar bills keeping the thing on the road.

I absolutely agree. They want to get rid of it cause it's constant problems. ANY leak can be enormous money. A windshield leak will often go behind the dash down to the electronics/electrical and cause havoc, and can cost big money. Windshield leaks can be very difficult to stop. I wouldn't assume he fixed the windshield leak. If dash AC is important to you, sometimes the rubber hoses are shot, and to fix all that is usually a grand or more, if you can get the parts. Go in the rig and look for any brown stains around the vents, which would indicate water leaks. I would run away myself, but I wouldn't pay anymore than $15K max.

I'd probably give $15K if it was pretty much right and mainly because I do a lot of my own work. Still we have unanswered questions here, unless I missed some along the line.

Which chassis, P32 or W and which W if that?
If P32 are front air bags good or better yet, has after market coils, which removes them entirely?
Autopark and if so, which version and is it working properly?
Which model and if a 37A, could be the preferred W24 chassis along with an Allison tranny and the 8.1 Votec engine.
Now that's a lot for $15K and leaves room for a good bit of repair and new tires even.
Dash air fails are so common, many don't even bother repairing them anymore and just as long as your roof airs and genset work OK. We went for a total of 12yrs in two coaches without dash air and never suffered as a result of it.

[T18skyguy]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Book valuations on RVs are from depreciation schedules, not from actual sales like auto valuations. The RV being considered is soon to be 16 years old. I would be concerned about the condition and remaining life of things like the appliances. If the electronics haven't been replaced, they are now dinosaurs. I wouldn't consider spending $20,000 to $30,000 for a gas coach that old unless it had been updated and in tip top shape. The odds are significant that you wouldn't bleed nickels and dimes, but would hemorrhage hundred dollar bills keeping the thing on the road.

I absolutely agree. They want to get rid of it cause it's constant problems. ANY leak can be enormous money. A windshield leak will often go behind the dash down to the electronics/electrical and cause havoc, and can cost big money. Windshield leaks can be very difficult to stop. I wouldn't assume he fixed the windshield leak. If dash AC is important to you, sometimes the rubber hoses are shot, and to fix all that is usually a grand or more, if you can get the parts. Go in the rig and look for any brown stains around the vents, which would indicate water leaks. I would run away myself, but I wouldn't pay anymore than $15K max.

[ncrowley]

My biggest concern is the lack of maintenance records after 2010. Also, selling the RV is such a short time may indicate that the RV is more trouble than it is worth. But the lack of maintenance records is a deal breaker for me.

[185EZ]

We still don't know everything about this particular rv.
The fact the owner already pointed out a couple problems is a good thing.
I don't see these problems as walk away items.
Some people say that there are newer problem free rv's in same price range.
I want to see this 15 year old problem free rv lol.
Maybe there are unknown problems.
Maybe the op has a certain price range to be in.
He could double the price and still run into the same problems.
Pay the guy to bring it to an rv shop and give a realistic estimate and go from there
If someone wants to know the maintenance schedule on my rv I can write one up today
I'm not saying this is the best rv but knowing about a few problems shouldn't be a negative. They can be fixed

[way2roll]

huntdooly, are you that set on this particular RV to shrug off the valuable advice people have given you? Multiple people have told you to be concerned about this particular RV and that a quick search will yield many others in the same price range with maintenance records and no issues for the same price if not cheaper (never mind what you will spend to fix it). Futher, flooplans are not that unique that you could not find something very close if not exact to the one you are looking at. What's the floorplan of this particular RV? (let us know the model) and perhaps you can find either the exact same or one just like it in better shape for the same price.

If you still want to pursue this particular model, look for ones for sale and subtract 10-20% (if not more) or look on EBAY for sold models and see what they went for. It's still subjective as this particular RV could be in a much different shape than ones that sold. One in great shape with maintenance records and no leaks comparing to the one you are looking at is comparing apples to basketballs.

It also sounds like you will need to know what you are doing with respect to fixing things on your own or opening your wallet to having someone do it for you. This unit sounds like a good bit of money just to get it rolling never mind the soundness and safety from things like rot and mold. And another thing to consider, if you bought this RV for $20k, put $10k into it (tires, AC, fixing the leak and who knows what else) it's still only going to be worth $20k - if that. Your money is better spent getting an RV that's been maintained and ready to go. But like I said, several folks have mentioned this already.

Good luck

[westernrvparkow]

Book valuations on RVs are from depreciation schedules, not from actual sales like auto valuations. The RV being considered is soon to be 16 years old. I would be concerned about the condition and remaining life of things like the appliances. If the electronics haven't been replaced, they are now dinosaurs. I wouldn't consider spending $20,000 to $30,000 for a gas coach that old unless it had been updated and in tip top shape. The odds are significant that you wouldn't bleed nickels and dimes, but would hemorrhage hundred dollar bills keeping the thing on the road.

[huntdooly]

185EZ wrote:

huntdooly wrote:

185EZ wrote:
What's the rest of the overall condition?
Tires would be my first concern and a big ticket item
Windshield leak could be caused by tweaking of chassis by the jacks
Fridge is also a costly item
How many miles?
Me? I look at trade in value when buying used and go from there
Dash a/c may or may not be an easy fix
Roof a/c is just remove and replace for a few hundred bucks

Thank you! Where do I find trade in values?

Sorry, I thought KBB or NADA would show it.
timmac is probably close in the $17 to $21K range.
I have a friend in the rv trade and can give me some numbers if you want to PM more info on the rv.
It's tough shopping used even if you know what to look for.
As long as your handy and can do some work you'll be fine.
I've purchased a few new ones and they all had problems.
Just make sure you buy it right to cover some of the costs

Thank you!