Tried towing after new tires & algnment...it did not go well

[HoosierDad]

We have a 2012 F-250 standard cab 6.2L, full 8' bed. Our trailer is a 2013 Cruiser CT29RLX travel trailer. I have sway bars on each side as well as 800 lb bars on each side for weight distribution.

Since we bought the trailer new in 2012, it has towed very easily and consistently. Last year the trailer towed perfectly with little sway or movement. Camping season start was delayed this year due to COVID-19 so I decided to replace the original equipment Continental tires with the same thing at 60,000 miles as they were starting to look bad even though I still had over 1/4" of tread. The tires were replaced and I then had the alignment done. I knew the right front was out because I had quite a bit of wear on the outside edge and the alignment printout showed it. I was running 65 PSI in the front tires and 75 PSI in the rear tires.

We hooked up the trailer for our first camping trip and got about 2 miles away from the house on a two lane highway and noticed that the front end felt it was on ice. Very light on the steering and each car passing in the other direction gave me a little wiggle. I was paying close attention and it seemed to do better when I was on a curve and had pressure on the steering wheel to make the curve. I then got on a 6 lane interstate and it seemed that the smallest thing such as grooves in the concrete were pushing me left and right. I had enough and turned around due the risk I felt that it posed to us as well as everyone else. The sway was bad enough twice in about 10 miles that I had to slowly apply the brakes to stop it.

Nothing has changed in the camper. No additional weight, nothing in any of the tanks. Sometimes I will carry water; however, having all that weight on the back end behind the axles brings sway on so I rarely do it.

On the trip back to the house, I pulled into a large parking lot and tightened the chain up by another link to put additional weight on the front end. It seemed to help a little but not much. I still felt every groove in the highway and it did not accomplish what I thought it would.

Without the trailer the front end does seem to have a little slop in it now that I am paying attention. It is usually going straight as again following a curve with some pressure on it seems to help somewhat.

I'm going to have to go to the alignment place because they are not answering the phone and are not returning my calls to make an appointment to have them check their alignment work as a starting point.

In the mean time, has anyone experienced or heard about anything similar? I wonder it is an alignment issue, new bad Continental tires, a front end linkage problem. etc..

Thanks for reading and any ideas you might send my way.

[Grit_dog]

^Right on HD. So they were squirrely new tires.
Yes check your pressures. 40/30 should ride very comfortable, but sounds just a bit on the low end for your trucks weight.

[HoosierDad]

Grit dog wrote:
^ Figure your axle weights and then use a load/pressure chart for your size of tire.
You can look up your exact truck, but I know your truck has a curb weight around 6000lbs and it's about 3500lbs FA, 2500lbs RA giver take.
So being conservative (lower pressure = better traction and reduced high speed handling, I call it "winter air" and the opposite for "summer air")
Say truck is 4000lbs FA = 40psi min pressure (2130 lb tire capacity at 40psi)
3000lbs RA = Probably around 30psi min (35psi = 1930lbs capacity)

Add trailer, say you add 1000lbs to the rear axle.
RA = 5000lbs = 50psi for 2535 lbs capacity per rear tire.

This is not needed to be calculated to the lb or exact 1 psi, but rather a starting point.
If it feels a little squishy, air up a little from the min.
If it's riding like a lumber wagon, air down some.
Way too little and you're killing mileage and your tires, way too much and you're not getting as good of traction and beating up your steering and suspension.

Case in point.
I have a 3/4 ton diesel. Previous owner had relatively new 37x12.50s on it. He had both front and rear at 65psi. Doesn't sound too bad, right?
Wrong. Tires had low miles, rode like they were made of wood and had worn down the center of the tread about 3/32 more than the outside edges which had 0/32 total wear. And it handled worse because the contact patch was slow, tires didn't soak up bumps and they tracked bad in the wheel ruts.
I am running about 45 psi front and 30psi rear, empty. Add 1500-2000lb tongue weight, I run 45psi front and 40-45 psi rear. WITH almost a ton on the hitch. Truck drives much better.

Thanks for the PSI info Grit dog

I did replace the Continentals with the Cooper Discoverer 3 tires and the problem did go away. I ran our first trip on the new tires last weekend and the pressures were 65 PSI Front and 75 PSI Rear which was close to where I was with the Continentals just for more of an apples to apples comparison. I dropped the pressures down to 40 PSI front and 30 PSI rear and it does feel completely different. I haven't had to get out much this week but I am going to make a trip to pick up some lumber so I'll get a chance to see how it does at the lower pressures.

Thanks again for the explanation on the right pressures to use. I'll hit the Cooper Tire web site and take a look at their information on loads based on PSi.

Thanks again

[dodge_guy]

I really hope by now the tires have a had a chance to firm up from the heat cycles.

[Grit_dog]

^ Figure your axle weights and then use a load/pressure chart for your size of tire.
You can look up your exact truck, but I know your truck has a curb weight around 6000lbs and it's about 3500lbs FA, 2500lbs RA giver take.
So being conservative (lower pressure = better traction and reduced high speed handling, I call it "winter air" and the opposite for "summer air")
Say truck is 4000lbs FA = 40psi min pressure (2130 lb tire capacity at 40psi)
3000lbs RA = Probably around 30psi min (35psi = 1930lbs capacity)

Add trailer, say you add 1000lbs to the rear axle.
RA = 5000lbs = 50psi for 2535 lbs capacity per rear tire.

This is not needed to be calculated to the lb or exact 1 psi, but rather a starting point.
If it feels a little squishy, air up a little from the min.
If it's riding like a lumber wagon, air down some.
Way too little and you're killing mileage and your tires, way too much and you're not getting as good of traction and beating up your steering and suspension.

Case in point.
I have a 3/4 ton diesel. Previous owner had relatively new 37x12.50s on it. He had both front and rear at 65psi. Doesn't sound too bad, right?
Wrong. Tires had low miles, rode like they were made of wood and had worn down the center of the tread about 3/32 more than the outside edges which had 0/32 total wear. And it handled worse because the contact patch was slow, tires didn't soak up bumps and they tracked bad in the wheel ruts.
I am running about 45 psi front and 30psi rear, empty. Add 1500-2000lb tongue weight, I run 45psi front and 40-45 psi rear. WITH almost a ton on the hitch. Truck drives much better.

[HoosierDad]

Grit dog wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:
I suspect the door sticker pressure is 65F/80R.

I suspect you're right and I also suspect that it is incorrect, or at very least less than ideal for the OP's weights.

But since the OP hasn't even considered providing us with what he thinks the load is or what tires are on it, not brand, but size, it is speculation.

Although given I'm fairly certain on the approx tire rating he has and the load of the camper, it is not speculation that 65/80 is not ideal...

Yes, the miles are low because I don't drive a great distance to work and when COVID hit, I've been working remotely from mid-March 2020.

This is the first set of new tires on either of my trucks that I put on as my 2004 6.0l diesel engine caused me to trade the truck at about 60,000. I would appreciate any guidance that you can provide on the best truck tire pressures as well as any guidance for the trailer's as well.

Here is the information and these are estimates as I have not had the truck and trailer weighed.

Truck 2012 F-250 4x4 Regular Cab 6.2L Cooper Discoverer HT3 LT275/65R18
Fuel Tank: 28 gallons
Driver: 225 lbs
Other Cargo: 300 lbs
Trailer 2012 Crossroads Cruiser CT29RLX Goodyear Endurance ST225/75R15
Dry Weight: 7041 lbs from Trailer
Hitch Weight: 856 "
Axle Weight: 6185 "
Cargo: 500 Estimated
Total Trailer: 7541 "

I do use weight distribution bars and followed Ford's guidance in the owners manual as approximately halfway between the no trailer/trailer attached heights of the front wheel opening.

Let me know if you need any other information to provide recommended pressures, I would appreciate the help.

[Jarlaxle]

Pretty sure that's been standard on 2500/3500 trucks for at least 25 years.

[Grit_dog]

Jarlaxle wrote:
I suspect the door sticker pressure is 65F/80R.

I suspect you're right and I also suspect that it is incorrect, or at very least less than ideal for the OP's weights.

But since the OP hasn't even considered providing us with what he thinks the load is or what tires are on it, not brand, but size, it is speculation.

Although given I'm fairly certain on the approx tire rating he has and the load of the camper, it is not speculation that 65/80 is not ideal...

[Jarlaxle]

I suspect the door sticker pressure is 65F/80R.

[Grit_dog]

HoosierDad wrote:
Sorry for the long delay in providing additional info.

Tires now have 2,000 miles on them and I tried to pull again last week with the same results. I increased the tire pressures to 65 psi front and 80 psi rear to the door sticker specification and it did not help. I still experienced the same level of movement. I have also noticed an odd very small shake while not towing at highway speed.

Last week, I took the truck to Ford and had then go over it and they indicated that everything looks good and they cannot find any problems anywhere. I had them do another alignment as the last place left the steering wheel off several degrees and I was not going back there again.

I talked to the place that I bought the tires from and they are ready to exchange them without any resistance. Reading a lot of posts, it almost seems like no one agrees on which tires might be a good choice. As I mentioned these were Continentals which were a direct replacement as that is what the truck came with new.

Thoughts on which tire brand to go to now?

Truck 2012 F-250 6.2L Regular Cab 4x4

A year later you now have 2000 more miles on the truck? Wow, with that few of miles you could just rent, unless you drive it like 4 miles a day or something.
I'd bet a weeks pay there's not a d@mn thing wrong with the tires. And why do you keep going up on pressure?
What size tires? 65psi up front on a gasser would have to be really small tires like 245 75 17s or something, or they're too full.
80 in back, even with the weakest LT tires out there that fit your truck is good for over 6klbs on the rear axle.
Let a bunch or air out and see how it handles.

How many HD tucks and how many sets of tires have you used on them? There's about a 99% chance it's the driver and not the tires.

[mkirsch]

That's another thing that has me scratching my head, this whole "one and done" mentality. I got a bad Continental tire so I'm going with something different. Makes no sense. If you had a bad tire and go back with another set the odds of you getting another bad one are slim to none.

Everyone has their favorite tires. Some people really like Continentals even. There's always Michelin if you want to spend the most money, but there are also some people who think Michelins are absolute junk...

Really you're just rolling the dice no matter what tire you choose.

[HoosierDad]

Sorry for the long delay in providing additional info.

Tires now have 2,000 miles on them and I tried to pull again last week with the same results. I increased the tire pressures to 65 psi front and 80 psi rear to the door sticker specification and it did not help. I still experienced the same level of movement. I have also noticed an odd very small shake while not towing at highway speed.

Last week, I took the truck to Ford and had then go over it and they indicated that everything looks good and they cannot find any problems anywhere. I had them do another alignment as the last place left the steering wheel off several degrees and I was not going back there again.

I talked to the place that I bought the tires from and they are ready to exchange them without any resistance. Reading a lot of posts, it almost seems like no one agrees on which tires might be a good choice. As I mentioned these were Continentals which were a direct replacement as that is what the truck came with new.

Thoughts on which tire brand to go to now?

Truck 2012 F-250 6.2L Regular Cab 4x4

[Tvov]

Well, I guess I'll chime in with the others who say I've never had "new tire squirm"... I have had a change in handling with new tires, usually for the better, but never to the point of feeling dangerous when towing.

What I have had more than once is crappy "alignment" done by shops.

Maybe the original poster might think about getting a new alignment at a different shop... would be worth paying for if it corrects the problem.

[MikeRP]

Grit dog wrote:

Mont G&J wrote:
My F-250 was a perfectly driverable truck untill I replacd the OE tires with BF Goodrich All Terrain Tires. It gave the feeling I was sitting on a basketball, and especially going through a curvey road was a white knuckle experience. I thought they might get better with some miles on them, but after drving from Montana to Florida pulling a Fifth Wheel I gave-up and traded the truck in down there.

Roflmao!!!!
Not sure if it’s sad or funny, but I find it hilarious.
“I got some tires I didn’t like, so I traded in the truck....”
:S

Sounds perfectly logical to me! My wife always says I buy new tires and then go get a new truck. lol Tell her it’s worn out.

Back to topic my new Coopers AT3’s we’re down right dangerous brand new. Every curve I went around I was losing grip. They were fine after a while. But what bothers me about his statement is that other vehicles are pushing him on the road. This is not normal to me.

[mkirsch]

So half the guys say "new tire tread squirm." The other half say, "No such thing." Half say, "I experience it every time I put on new tires." The other half say, "I have never experienced it ever."

Maybe the OP should just trade in the truck?