Parvo in the SW?

[juliev]

I've heard from a few friends in the rescue groups that say they have a lot of dogs coming down with Parvo in the Albuquerque area. Now I've also heard it from a friend in So. Colorado. Had anyone heard any details? Is there a parvo epidemic doing on down there?

We are planning on heading out next week with 4 dogs. We had planned to go to that area, but if Parvo is going around, we may change our plans and head somewhere else (maybe Idaho, Oregon, Washington instead)

Dr Doug - have you heard anything?

[juliev]

Thanks for the info. Our guys are all vaccinated, so I guess I won't worry about it too much. I will however, do my best to keep them away from other dogs. In fact, I may just get my son to come and babysit the gang while we go. Then I won't have to worry about it at all. Maybe a vacation without "kids" would be nice, although I find I can't sleep without at least one or two dogs keeping me warm.

[raindove]

The vaccine debate is a slippery slope. I've had 3 of my own personal dogs go through AIHA. Once they have that - IF they survive, I do not vaccinate them any more, with the one exception being the 3 yr rabies required by our state.

Apparently some breeds are more prone to the auto-immune problem.

I do my best to keep them up on vaccines, but at the same time don't want to over load their immune system and throw them into AIHA. All we can do is educate ourselves and make the best choices for our pets, that we can with the info available.

It's a personal choice issue and we all have to live with the consequences of our own decisions.

[dturm]

scarpi wrote:
Dogs can have issues with over vaccinations. Years ago we had our dog vaccinated and after that we have our vet at our dog's yearly checkup including the typical blood work, also check what is called the titer or level of protection for various diseases.

I have several patients on annual titer testing. One thing you need to be aware of is that having a certain level of antibody does NOT guarantee that the animal is protected. There seems to be a lack of correlation between antibody levels and protection to the point that many academics think titer testing is a useless diagnostic tool when deciding about timing of vaccinations.

Not to get too technical, but the titer measures a certain antibody that may or may not be protective against exposure. Immunity is a complicated thing. We "think" achieving a certain titer level is protective, but this has not been tested in studies where exposure to the pathogen proves protection.

[resmas]

scarpi wrote:
Dogs can have issues with over vaccinations. Years ago we had our dog vaccinated and after that we have our vet at our dog's yearly checkup including the typical blood work, also check what is called the titer or level of protection for various diseases. To our vets surprise and ours, her titers have remained high meaning she is protected and she has not had the typical vaccines for years (other than the ones required for her license). Why give a vaccination yearly when your dog does not need it? Get a blood titer check for that disease and you will know if your dog needs a vaccination. I'll bet that once you get the vaccination, your dog won't need another one for the same issue for years.

There are some issues with titers... Cost being the major one. For the average pet-owner, it is cheaper to vaccinate vs. perform a titer. Not saying yearly vaccines are the correct route, just pointing out that not everyone can afford titers.

Also, I have not yet found a city/state/municipality that will accept a rabies titer as proof of immunity to rabies. There is still a legal requirement to vaccinate for rabies - heck, I even vaccinate my HORSES yearly for rabies for legal protection. Violate that law, and you might find yourself in a VERY expensive situation if it is determined that your pet has to be quarantined at a vet hospital, or worse, euthanized and necropsied. I've seen both situations happen... Until titers are legally accepted, I will continue to get yearly Rabies vaccines.

[scarpi]

Dogs can have issues with over vaccinations. Years ago we had our dog vaccinated and after that we have our vet at our dog's yearly checkup including the typical blood work, also check what is called the titer or level of protection for various diseases. To our vets surprise and ours, her titers have remained high meaning she is protected and she has not had the typical vaccines for years (other than the ones required for her license). Why give a vaccination yearly when your dog does not need it? Get a blood titer check for that disease and you will know if your dog needs a vaccination. I'll bet that once you get the vaccination, your dog won't need another one for the same issue for years.

[dturm]

There are still a bunch of vets that recommend the every year routine. Almost all of the distemper vaccines have a 1 year DOI (duration of immunity) listed on their inserts, so many are going with that until the inserts change. That probably isn't going to happen as it would cost large sums of money to prove efficacy through challenge testing and would result in decreased vaccine sales.

There is ample evidence that immunity lasts longer than 1 year, but in making the decision vets are taking on a greater liability going against package inserts/recommendations.

There is a statistical association between some immune mediated diseases and frequency of vaccination, but your dogs are far more likely to develop a disease that could be protected rather than one of the very rare immune mediated diseases. A huge majority of dogs have gone through life with annual vaccination and no repercussions.

We're kind of going through a similar thing with kids now. Many parents are opting not to vaccinate against measles based on fraudulent claims of an association between autism and vaccination (despite repeated repudiation by multiple people and studies in this field). As a result there is a marked increased incidence of measles in kids with deaths reported.

Sometimes it's hard to get through the hype.

[The_Dung_Beetle]

My dogs are happy, healthy, and disease free. So... as long as I have achieved that I'm a happy camper.

I appreciate the comments/input, and will certainly ask my vet why he's still got me going on annual vaccinations (with the exception of the 3 yr rabies).

I am teachable..
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[dturm]

I have not seen anything on the vet boards about parvo outbreaks, just an HGE like disease in Ohio and influenza on the east coast.

Parvo always tends to spike during the summer, lots of puppies and warm weather leads to increased incidence.

I'm not aware of any strains that are not addressed by the vaccines available now, so it is important to have up to date protection for everyone, especially those of us who travel and may have exposure to places like rest areas.

As far as vaccination schedules, the AVMA/AAHA guidelines now recommend every three years for core vaccines (Rabies, Distemper, adenovirus and Parvo) then all the others on an as needed/risk assessment basis. Most of our clients still opt for the annual rabies vaccination but do the three year interval for the distemper/parvo. This is what I do for our dogs (including the 3 yr rabies) and feel comfortable with this protocol.

I wouldn't hesitate to travel to AZ or any other part of the country.

There is a pretty short incubation period for parvo (several days to a week or two at most). If proper isolation and quarantine procedures as well as disinfection of transport vehicles are in effect, there should be no problem with shelter transport.

Doug, DVM

[Pawz4me]

The Dung Beetles wrote:
I vaccinate annually, and will do so until my veterinarian tells me otherwise.

Not to derail this thread, but the AVMA and (as far as I'm aware) every vet school in the country has recommended the three-year vaccine schedule for many years now. I'll take their collective recommendation over the recommendation of one single vet.

Regardless of whichever vaccine schedule one chooses, and regardless of the fact that no vaccine is 100 percent effective, I highly doubt it's the vaccinated pets who are the main culprits in spreading parvo.

[Code2High]

Nothing to do with puppies being shipped from shelter to shelter. I see puppies in shelters across the country on my newsfeed. They get it the old fashioned way, in over-crowded kill shelters, before they are pulled.

Typically they are pulled when it is discovered that they are sick, as they will be killed otherwise, or when exposed for the same reason, or they are pulled and go into a foster home and are discovered to be ill at that point.

From there they go into a hospital/quarantine setting until well enough to go to a foster equipped to deal with them, and are then quarantined until a vet gives the all-clear.

[rockhillmanor]

That is EXACTLY why they have to stop shipping shelter rescues into other states. 😞
There is report after report of severe parvo outbreaks of 'different strains' that the dogs have not been exposed to after interstate shipping of shelter rescues. One vaccine does not cover 'all' the different strains and when you bring dogs in from across several states is where this raises it's ugly head and many dogs at the 'receiving shelter' end of dieing from it. :(:(

[The_Dung_Beetle]

I'll start off by saying I'm not a vet, but I worked in vet medicine for 25 years.

I think Parvo is always lurking - sort of omnipresent so to speak. Some people think it's been eradicated but it's more likely that once a big scare hits the masses make sure their dogs are UTD on vaccinations. Then, ... as time goes on and it appears to be gone , they get lax about vaccinating and then round after round of Parvo surfaces when people least expect it. Sadly, it's the poor dogs that pay the high price.

Dog circles have these intense battle lines drawn on "to vaccinate or not vaccinate" annually. It's crazy how hot these discussions get! I vaccinate annually, and will do so until my veterinarian tells me otherwise. Since 1970 all of my dogs (Boxers and an occasional mutt-ski) are all kept UTD on shots, and never once have I had a dog fail to live to their expected life span for the breed. I don't buy the fears of toxic vaccines building up and causing all sorts of diseases that shorten the lifespans of dogs.

Last...no one ever wants to lose a pet to some random anaphylactic reaction to something. Personally, I could survive the heart breaking disaster a little better knowing I lost a pet to a freak vaccination reaction then losing a pet due to owner neglect - especially if it was a disease that could have been prevented had I kept the pet vaccinated. There are a few breeds (like Rottys) that the Parvo vaccine is not highly effective on, and those are the exceptions to the rule. Accidents do happen.

Our dogs are vaccinated annually, and they travel allll over with us. I would not let a Parvo outbreak keep me from an area (unless I had a puppy that had not completed it's puppy shot series or a veryyy old dog). I have faith that our fur kids are well protected, and that we've done our best to keep them safe.

I hope Dr. Doug shows up (I assume he's a vet) and gives us his opinion.
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[Code2High]

I haven't heard anything about it in ABQ.... I can ask my SIL if she has if you want, they live just above ABQ.

I know there have been a lot of puppies coming out of shelters in So Cal and across the country with it over the summer, but then it's puppy/kitten season (sounds so cute but it's a nightmare), so there are a lot of puppies, a lot of stressed puppies, in crowded places. Always a problem.

[raindove]

I don't know about the southwest - but not long ago, we had an outbreak here in PA. A friend in SC said they had an outbreak down there, about the same time.

Puppies and older dogs or those with compromised immune systems would be at the greatest risk.