No gas to cook top

[enahs]

Kids are camped at Canyonlands NP at 5400 feet. New Escape RV. Gas to all other appliances except Dometic two burner cook top. It was working just a day ago at lower elevation. Is altitude really the issue or can there be something else. Do piezo wires have to be connected (I assume they are) for gas to flow? Propane tanks are full.

[enahs]

Just about back together and want to give my assessment of the Dometic D21 cooktop. As all of the foregoing indicates, this item has an issue above 4500 feet elevation, which includes a great deal of the camping here in the West. In this case, the gas to the cooktop was completely cut off at that elevation. Dometic gives no warning on this but hides behind the insistence that this is normal for gas appliances. But were that issue overcome, any buyer should be made aware that unlike other stove appliances, the D21 does not permit the top beneath the burners tp be removed separately. To clean any significant spill, the entire stovetop must be removed and disassembled. And this is a complicated process — much more than removing a couple of screws and lifting it out. Aside from the cleaning problem this presents, it also prevents ready testing of gas fittings for leaks and proper LP WC specifications without pulling the unit entirely and working on it upside down (making the main gas line very difficult to attach without special equipment). BTW, given that Escape RVs are sold directly by the manufacturer who refers appliance issues to their respective manufacturers, there is no help from Escape on an issue such as this. Escape accepted Dometic's explanation of "normal" for the altitude malfunction. As for Dometic, nothing can be done except through an authorized Dometic warranty center which will be a long wait getting in.

[JBarca]

This is the Dwyer gauge I use. I also built a water manometer. The accuracy of the home made manometer is hard to beat, it just takes some time to get it setup, where the gauge is quick. I check the gauge against the manometer.

https://www.amazon.com/Dwyer-Pressure-Test-LPTK-02-0-18-5/dp/B00F34RHUO

[enahs]

I might build that. Depends on what I can find in a reasonably priced instrument.

[RLS7201]

enahs wrote:
I am going to purchase a gauge to check WC and pressure. Any recommendations?

Depending on what you have laying around the house, this might work for you.

Richard

[enahs]

I am just going to eat the cost. The sad thing about Dometic is the fact that CS folks there don't know what they are taking about and merely repeat the pap they have learned in CS instruction meetings. Worse than worthless — I am experienced enough to have known the signs but ignored them! Presently, I am in the process of installing it in the hope that something has been changed. Never did hear back from the manufacturer. Then I plan to inspect the regulator on the old one to see if it can be made adjustable. Eventually, the entire system will have to be evaluated. I am going to purchase a gauge to check WC and pressure. Any recommendations?

[Grit_dog]

How much did this part set you back? Helps decide how to handle it going forward.
Did it work?

(Reason #77 I don't buy new with warranty...costs more upfront and on the back end, not to mention the hassle when you get to deal with crooks)

[JBarca]

enahs wrote:
Sooo, got the new part and pulled the cooktop. The new part was ordered because Dometic told me that the old part was defective and had been replaced by a new item. They sent a schematic of the original part and it is clearly different than the new part. Too, they indicated that the new part would be covered by warranty. Turns out that the new part and the part in the cooktop are the same. And the only way Dometic will apply a warranty is to have an official Dometic center declare the old part defective — which, under the best of circumstances, is only possible at high elevation. As for Escape, the trailer manufacturer, appliances are warrantied by their manufacturers! They were of no help on an RV that is billed as high quality and only several months old. Why am I not surprised!

Oh great. It appears there might be 3 - 4 options to resolving this. Or at least the 4 that come to mind.

1. Find someone near you with a lab and a vacuum chamber to put the whole stove in and create 4,500 ft elevation's conditions. Most likely not an option...

2. Go on a camping trip with the camper the way it is now to a place out west at 4,500 ft elevation and re-create the problem. Then find a Dometic authorized repair shop out there, have them install the new one and declare the old one bad and maybe the new one too. Then sort out what ever that outcome is. This option is complex and may not happen.

3. Install the new parts, hope for the best and you end up eating the cost of the parts. This may or may not work.

4. You are not really in a good spot unless you can find a Dometic repair shop that has dealt with these before and can comment on if they have found this same issue and what they did to resolve it. A bunch of calling to shops in the area your relative was camping at, may turn up something. This option might help give you the best hope for a resolution.

From what I have experienced, anyone other then a Dometic authorized shop trying to get any traction on warranty resolution just does not happen. They will not even talk technical with you or accept new still in the package parts to test themselves.

Hope this turns your positive for you, somehow. Let us know how this comes out.

[JBarca]

StirCrazy wrote:

JBarca wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:


your instincts are corect in that atmospheric pressure plays a part but non of your calculations will work if you us 0 as a atmospheric pressure. it is 14.7psia or 101kPa at sea level and at 4500 feet it is aproximatly 12.5psia or 85.7kPa and 10 to 11" of watter colume is 0.36 to 0.4psi so realy at 4500 feet there should still be plenty of differential for it to work, maybe a slight yellowing at the tips of the flames. the problem with atmospheric relief regulators is they do use atmospheric pressure to act on the diaphram, the intent is to prevent an air lock from forming above it and preventing it from closing and it has a neglagable effect, but it is also much cheeper than using a pressure ballanced regulator set up.

myself I would remove the regulator , make a fitting to bridge the gap and try the stove, if it works put a new regulator in. mind you this might be more than you want to do while camping. the other option is to change it out and see how it works next time your camping.

this thread has me wondering if mine is starting to get week, I changed out my main regulator and everything got better but I do have a flame that is a little two yellow but I am under 1000 feet and even when I am at 4500-5000 feet it doesnt change realy, hmm something else to updte now I guess... thanks 😉

Thank you. You are correct, I forgot the 14.7 psi at sea level. Thanks to reminding me what I forgot....

no worries, I have been working with PSIa for 35 years now and I still have a momentary laps when I look at mormal pressur guages and try to plug the 0 into an equasion :B

We have a common thing going on, we are only 14.7 psi apart...LOL I have been working with PSIg for 40 years and forgot about normal atmospheric pressure at sea level:R

What's a few psi amongst camper buds...other then the wrong answer 🙂

[enahs]

Sooo, got the new part and pulled the cooktop. The new part was ordered because Dometic told me that the old part was defective and had been replaced by a new item. They sent a schematic of the original part and it is clearly different than the new part. Too, they indicated that the new part would be covered by warranty. Turns out that the new part and the part in the cooktop are the same. And the only way Dometic will apply a warranty is to have an official Dometic center declare the old part defective — which, under the best of circumstances, is only possible at high elevation. As for Escape, the trailer manufacturer, appliances are warrantied by their manufacturers! They were of no help on an RV that is billed as high quality and only several months old. Why am I not surprised!

[StirCrazy]

JBarca wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:


your instincts are corect in that atmospheric pressure plays a part but non of your calculations will work if you us 0 as a atmospheric pressure. it is 14.7psia or 101kPa at sea level and at 4500 feet it is aproximatly 12.5psia or 85.7kPa and 10 to 11" of watter colume is 0.36 to 0.4psi so realy at 4500 feet there should still be plenty of differential for it to work, maybe a slight yellowing at the tips of the flames. the problem with atmospheric relief regulators is they do use atmospheric pressure to act on the diaphram, the intent is to prevent an air lock from forming above it and preventing it from closing and it has a neglagable effect, but it is also much cheeper than using a pressure ballanced regulator set up.

myself I would remove the regulator , make a fitting to bridge the gap and try the stove, if it works put a new regulator in. mind you this might be more than you want to do while camping. the other option is to change it out and see how it works next time your camping.

this thread has me wondering if mine is starting to get week, I changed out my main regulator and everything got better but I do have a flame that is a little two yellow but I am under 1000 feet and even when I am at 4500-5000 feet it doesnt change realy, hmm something else to updte now I guess... thanks 😉

Thank you. You are correct, I forgot the 14.7 psi at sea level. Thanks to reminding me what I forgot....

no worries, I have been working with PSIa for 35 years now and I still have a momentary laps when I look at mormal pressur guages and try to plug the 0 into an equasion :B

[JBarca]

StirCrazy wrote:


your instincts are corect in that atmospheric pressure plays a part but non of your calculations will work if you us 0 as a atmospheric pressure. it is 14.7psia or 101kPa at sea level and at 4500 feet it is aproximatly 12.5psia or 85.7kPa and 10 to 11" of watter colume is 0.36 to 0.4psi so realy at 4500 feet there should still be plenty of differential for it to work, maybe a slight yellowing at the tips of the flames. the problem with atmospheric relief regulators is they do use atmospheric pressure to act on the diaphram, the intent is to prevent an air lock from forming above it and preventing it from closing and it has a neglagable effect, but it is also much cheeper than using a pressure ballanced regulator set up.

myself I would remove the regulator , make a fitting to bridge the gap and try the stove, if it works put a new regulator in. mind you this might be more than you want to do while camping. the other option is to change it out and see how it works next time your camping.

this thread has me wondering if mine is starting to get week, I changed out my main regulator and everything got better but I do have a flame that is a little two yellow but I am under 1000 feet and even when I am at 4500-5000 feet it doesnt change realy, hmm something else to updte now I guess... thanks 😉

Thank you. You are correct, I forgot the 14.7 psi at sea level. Thanks to reminding me what I forgot....

[Harvard]

CA Traveler wrote:
There could also be oil in the line to the stovetop blocking the flow.

x2, which congeals when cold but flows when warmer OAT.

[enahs]

Hafta figure how to post parts schematic/

[enahs]

I wish it were that simple. Unless you use the griddle over a campfire, you will encounter a regulator!

[enahs]

I wish it were that simple. Unless you use the griddle over a campfire, you will encounter a regulator!