Power Gear Slide-out System is failing

[jdubya]

Whoa! I just hauled my Fleetwood Flair 2004 down for new tires, getting ready for a major trip. Got back and went to open the slides and 'nothing' - I can't find the controller for the slides. The book says its a Power Gear - it has two slides each with a single motor. The large one is accessible, but neither works. I was able to apply 12 vdc to the large motor and it turned out a couple of turns so I stopped and turned it back in. All fuses I can find are good and I checked all the wiring that I can find/get to.

Last time that I tried it was last fall when I stored it. I usually store it open, but this year I closed it.

I should probably mention that I have another electrical problem where 12 vdc is not reaching the switcher that runs the overhead panel's electronics such as the rear camera and the tv switcher. The camera lost power when the cable wore through and shorted things out. I didn't know about it until the camera quit, but the slides worked for several times in/out after that. I can't find anything wrong there either.

I see that others have experienced motor problems, but I cannot find any reason to suspect them. They usually do not just quit. This is affecting both slides. The one is under the bed and the other is a large one on the driver side. I exercised the big slide's motor, but I'm getting concerned because we have reservations starting Mon May 7

I cannot find a controller anywhere, all the fuses appear to be ok, the automatic levelers by the same company appear to work ok. The slides will not actuate with or without the levelers - I am usually able to operate them without the levelers.

The fuses for the 12 vdc are above the desk in the bedroom. Power is there but measures 10.6 vdc. All automotive fuses are in a cubby in the top of the front panel. All check out and measure 12.6 vdc (all measurements are sitting with engine off). The other main fuse box is in the engine compartment and has many fuses and some relays, also the cut-off solenoids. All of this stuff appears to be working, the engine starts and everything else appears to work except the two items mentioned.

There is a separate fuse box with huge fuses and some relays above the larger one. It also appears to be ok - all of the fuses check out and the voltage is 12.8 vdc within a few inches of the battery - which itself is brand new and starts the big vortec without hesitation. I have to have the engine running to get the levelers to operate, so I ran them but didn't recheck the voltages - the 10.6 is surprisingly low and I double-checked it.

I looked through all of these switches and fuses and I find no mention of slideouts though auto levelers are indicated.

Any suggestions?

[j-d]

Glad it's settled! Congratulatons!

A lot of winches are controlled with a relay called a "Trombetta" because of a well known manufacturer.
They look like this...

...and reverse heavy loads with only a single device. This one's $17 from a great vendor called DBElectrical. Walmart showed same thing same price. Both "free shipping" but Walmart is probably Free to Store.

Probably a good idea to have help from your truck's charging system to run Jacks and/or Slides. But above my paygrade to advise if you should wire it in a way to make that mandatory...

Again, Good on YOU!

[jdubya]

Update: I was successful in getting my circuit to work using a winch controller and a relay to switch the controller's output to the other slide out. With the main slide selected, the relay is off. That is the switch side off too. So switch off is 'Main' Switch on is 'Bedroom' Leave switch in Main position for travel.

I finally located the slide out power source and it runs off the coach batteries not the automotive system. Or does it? The power from the batteries comes from the front of the coach and has a relay - disconnect system that allows power from the batteries or the engine, but the relays on the power side force the user to start the engine to establish power even though it is being supplied from the 12 vdc coach batteries. Then the disconnect solenoids automatically (it cannot be stopped without rewiring) switch the two systems together. So the fuse is in the back and is 20 amp

My new system still uses that fuse, and does not require that the engine be started - only that the key is on - so best to go ahead and start it. It gets the alternator output voltage that way. I considered to not do that so that the slides could both be operated from the coach batteries and you could run directly off the batteries or start the engine - either way.

I waffled a bit and decided - nah, why go through all the trouble of adding another 40 feet of wire to hook the battery up so that the engine can be used when it already is automatically used if I start it?

The only thing that my new system does not have is some kind of automatic shutoff of the motors when the end of travel is reached. Before the motors were shut off by the travel stops, now I have to shut them off. That is easy. When the motors are running, I can actually go out the door and watch them reach the limits or stay inside and listen to them hit the limits and then stop pushing the button on the remote controller.

Works great!

[jdubya]

btcruzer wrote:
I have a 2003 Fleetwood Flair. Must be quite a difference between yours and mine, as the 120 volt and 12 volt breakers and fuses are located behind a false door below the cook stove next to the fridge. Next to the electrical panel there is a sticker stating that the "slide out room motor control" is mounted behind the electrical panel board. That panel is hinged at the bottom and can be released and swung down to reveal lots of wiring. I found the circuit breakers for the slides hidden under the fridge and kinda accessable through that opening.
While investigating the manual open/retract setup for the bedroom slide, I decided to wire that motor to an easy access point so I could connect a jump box to the motor to bypass all the controls and wiring. This has been tested but never needed. I have found that motors fail less often than breakers.fuses, switches and relays.
You do know that there is a manual way to operate there slides? Labor intensive but a good thing to be aware of.
Good luck with this, keep us informed .. inquiring minds wanna know.

Yes, that sure would have been nice. The fuses for the slides are unknown location. I was able to find some relays in the front. The wiring for the bedroom traced to a place under the fridge, but that is all I could find. Unbelievable!

The idea of the manual open for the bed is a pipe dream. The bed cannot be lifted up so the panel can be accessed. I suppose the entire side of the bed panel could be removed - kinda destructive. I was really appalled at how poorly it was designed and yours is older so they went backwards! I ended up pulling the entire top of the bed off after man-handling the queen bed out of there. Then I took off the front of the bed hoping that I could get to the wires - I could so I cut and hooked up 12 vdc from the camper - it began to move but it moved away from me too fast and I couldn't reach it so I had to remove the entire cover, stand it up and then I could take off the panel(s) to get at the motor.

I am about to try it now - wish me luck!

[btcruzer]

I have a 2003 Fleetwood Flair. Must be quite a difference between yours and mine, as the 120 volt and 12 volt breakers and fuses are located behind a false door below the cook stove next to the fridge. Next to the electrical panel there is a sticker stating that the "slide out room motor control" is mounted behind the electrical panel board. That panel is hinged at the bottom and can be released and swung down to reveal lots of wiring. I found the circuit breakers for the slides hidden under the fridge and kinda accessable through that opening.
While investigating the manual open/retract setup for the bedroom slide, I decided to wire that motor to an easy access point so I could connect a jump box to the motor to bypass all the controls and wiring. This has been tested but never needed. I have found that motors fail less often than breakers.fuses, switches and relays.
You do know that there is a manual way to operate there slides? Labor intensive but a good thing to be aware of.
Good luck with this, keep us informed .. inquiring minds wanna know.

[jdubya]

Correction: I wrote this last night or should I say early this morning after a long, long day only to have the site throw it away!
Thanks to someone who noted that we can back up through the stuff and return to what we had done. I did and it was there. I hope that it is useful to someone else - here it is:

Well I finally got in from working on the RV - we are leaving tomorrow afternoon.

When I left, I had just located the relays that operate the slides - it actually said 'slide'. I verified that they had power coming into them - the first one did on pins 30 and 86, but nothing on the other one. I tried to replace both but that did not change anything.

After some reading on the internet,I decided to use a controller from a winch that was a cast off from another project. It, along with a single relay used to determine which motor will run should do it.

I tested the proposed system by 'cooking up a small set up' to use to make sure it would work. It did and I spent all afternoon running the wires. I clipped off the old connector for the motor and attached my wires to them. I installed the controller and relay in the battery box, but now I am wishing I had done things differently because in part, there is nowhere to place to install the switch that is not in the way.

After that was installed, the switch is in the off state and the relay is not picked so when the motor control is told extend, the slide goes out and retract pressed makes it come back in. I couldn't run them for more than one out cycle because I had too much junk in the way. I had to clean out the bedroom to get at the motor.

You are supposed to be able to lift the bed to get at the panel that the motor is under, but the panel was under the closet doors and would not open. I had to remove the entire upper panel and stand it up out of the way. Then the middle panel was accessible and also the motor. I cut the only two wires going to the motor and connected a power supply to the motor's wires to move it out. Once I found the cable, I was able to located where the wires came out under the refrigerator so I connected everything back up which took a surprising amount of time.

I verified that I could move the slide in and out with the wires that I located by connecting my power source to it. I quit for the night with only two runs of 10 ft that I have to run. If I can figure out how to get to the location that I am using, it shouldn't be too bad. If I cannot, I can run the small slide with the power supply if needed.

It was sure neat how the remote control from the winch worked - I could stand outside and watch the slide as it was moving. I could stop it, reverse it, and finally stop it when it reached close position. This thing is so simple - it is a wonder that they mess with this other than to control the stopping.

I'm shot - time to sleep. (I did get in a couple of naps too)

[j-d]

Lying awake and read this thinking Low Battery, Bad Wiring.. connections, terminals, internal corrosion, BAD GROUND.. Maybe Controller or Relay.
If it was mine:
Apply +12 and Ground with a Start Pack or Jumper cables from a running vehicle. If it works you skip Motor, Gears, Racks etc
Spec VOLTAGE DOESN'T MEAN a system will deliver required AMPS. Dismantle, Clean, INSPECT every Wire, Cable, Terminal, Connection
Find Controller or Relays. Put your DC Meter across and have Helper try In and Out. Meter must show +12 for In or Out and -12 for Out or In. Same for Switch that controls it.
Probably not a reverser but must be energizing Controller or Relays appropriately
Buy or Build SEPARATE Reversing Relay modules for each Slide.
Look up Reversing Relay and pick for Control Voltage, Reversed Voltage.. both 12vdc, Amps and I'd do at least 50.
Outfit called Trombetta makes one used on off-road cable winches that might work. Some just call it Trombetta. Odd uncommon term that's good to understand before you sit down with a bunch of guys drinking beer around a fire comparing their Trombettas...

[dougrainer]

READING the DC voltage AT the slide motor is the only way to go. Regardless of what the voltage is anywhere else is futile. Unless the voltage is BELOW 12.6 volts. If below 12.6 volts, you do NOT have the Voltage to run the Slide or Jack system. The reason to verify Voltage AT the Slide motor wires is to verify you really have adequate voltage to the slide motor. You can have loose/corroded connections between the switch and controllers and the slide motors that drop the voltage and you will waste time trying to find the cause. There are some controllers that will not function at all with below 12.0 volts at the board, because it knows it cannot operate the motors as required. Most RV's have the chassis battery operate the Leveling Jacks and the COACH batteries operate the slide rooms if electric slide motors. AS the other poster stated, if you show LESS than 12.6 volts, that is the problem you need to fix FIRST. When connected to Shore Power, NO RV should have less than 12.9 to 13.4 volts on the Coach system. If less, then your Converter/Inverter-Charger is not functioning. Doug

[newman_fulltime]

If your reading voltages plugged in your not reading battery voltage your reading the converter output .. My bet is still on a bad battery

You really need to do a load test on the batteries to determine the amp draw on them

[jdubya]

Kit Carson wrote:
On my Winnebago I found my controllers in a bay hidden behind a black plastic protector. Really a mobile tech found it for me. He is on this forum so he may reply to you. Newman chloride is his name.

I hope so. I have looked every where I can think of. I have one that I am trying to open now - about 4x4 square. But it is hard to get at. Voltages are all ok now. Last night the chassis batteries were at 10.6 I thought but I must have been wrong - they were solid 13.5 this morning. And when I started it, the voltage went to over 14.5 - still not working.

I started it, lifted the pedestals and pulled it out to work in the open. I have to look under the refrig. I've looked in all of the compartments, tried to determine which way the wires travel, etc. The other failing component might be affecting it so I'm looking into it as well. I am really surprised that something can lose power without having a breaker pop somewhere.

One thing sure - when I am through with this thing it will run without having to have the engine running - it always has - sometimes it moves a little slowly, but only at the start.

[jdubya]

newman fulltimer wrote:
because slide motors take a lot of amps and at 10.4 volts the amps are not there. Possible the landing gear runs off chassis batteries

Yes, I thought of that, too. BTW, the power readings are all over 13.5 vdc this morning and at over 14.5 vdc running - still doesn't work. I made sure that the release switches were ok at least on the one I can get at.

[newman_fulltime]

jdubya wrote:

newman fulltimer wrote:
Your batteries are to low for them to work is all it is

Then why does it operate the levelers? I will see if I can get the voltage up but that is the first thing I checked. Though the 10.6 does bother me, it is on the mains way in the back - to get it down that far suggests a load somewhere. I will try to check them with the engine running - if it stays there, something is wrong. But the slides should take their power from the front stuff nearer the battery I would think, but I can't find any controller to check for voltage. I am fairly certain that no voltage is getting to the motors at all but I'll try to check that too

The battery was dead when I pulled it out of storage - it wouldn't recharge, so I replaced it. It starts the engine fine, but I think I will reseat a few grounds and other connections.

because slide motors take a lot of amps and at 10.4 volts the amps are not there. Possibletge landing gear runs off chasis batteries

[Kit_Carson]

Supposed to have said bay not bag

[Kit_Carson]

On my Winnebago I found my controllers in a bag hidden behind a black plastic protector. Really a mobile tech found it for me. He is on this forum so he may reply to you. Newman chloride is his name.

[jdubya]

wa8yxm wrote:
Most likely eats off a Circuit breaker (Self resetting thermal)

I have not yet found the fried controller for my slides eitehr

I built a new one out of a pair of SPDT relays. Someone else posted a schematic on one of the forums I visit but here are the basics

The motor has two wires.. These go to the moving contacts on teh relays (Armature)

The Normally closed is ground
The normally open is HOT
THe switch (And not an RF controller as well) feed the relays.

NOTE: this is a NON protected systemk holding the switch closed can fry the motor.. I do shut off power to the system when not sliding.

Well that is interesting - I could do that but it means wiring new runs - I was hoping to get it running without rebuilding - but like I told my wife, this thing is going to operate if I have to make my own control board.

Not a single word about the controller in the Fleetwood manual except to say that it comes with a manual. Big deal. Where did they put the fool thing! I have relays and some experience wiring them so the only thing you get from the controller is automatic stop without overload. There is also a hold feature, but I think that it is in the motor itself.

In order to get the bedroom to run, I have to get the wires to it and they are under the mattress which is under the cabinets - not impossible, but ... Be better if I could get to them at the old controller - but where is it?