Towing

[samandjohn]

Hello all, just bought my first new toy hauler. I plan on hauling my side by side in the back. I have weight distribution bars and sway bars on a 2 5/16 hitch. Dry weight is 5262 and GVWR is 7,668. This gives me a cargo weight of 2,406. Side by side weighs 1700 lbs. This is my first toy hauler and want to make sure I’m getting the weight and balance correct. Any suggestions for this new guy would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[dsrace]

nickthehunter wrote:
Geez guys, it’s a first time poster, cut him/her some slack. Maybe you could be a little nicer and explain what you need to know and why it matters and quit being a NPA.

You do bring up a valid point. Since the op doesn't seem to answer the questions, anything is possible. Year make model are very basic but still possible. Maybe they chose it because the salesman said they could haul any Sxs in it. Maybe they simply picked a color they liked or maybe it simply was the led lights under the awning. They are customizable via color changes and blinking patterns. All is possible for sure.

My personal guess is that the op's 1700 lb sxs weight claim is what was based on the sxs, manufacturers web site. Im betting it was a dry curb weight for a base model. Adding wheels and a cage can easily add 300 lbs plus ! let alone stereos, axles, suspension, better seats and 5 point harnesses. The 2023 rzr 4 seat turbo with aftermarket 35's and spare tire carrier, with rzrs light package , weighs in at 2850 lbs wet. Know someone that weiged theirs.

Irregardless of new to toyhaulers or not, with less then 700 lbs left of max cargo capacity, the op cannot put any camping gear let alone tools or spare parts for that sxs. They'll be at max or over.

Now as that sxs is more likely a 4x4, prob less critical concerning pulled in vs backed in. Not like a dune buggy or sand rail anyway. They are 2wd and the motor/transaxle combos are the heaviest. A lot of sxs's have a front diff, axles, front drive wheel bearings, radiator/fan combos up front as well plus eps.

I recently sold my 30' bumper hitch toyhauler. Winched my sand rail in backwards because pulled in it would get squirrly enough to move a 1999 f350 drw diesel! Had and Anderson wdh with sway control that I had purchased for the previous th'er. Worked great up to 8500 lbs that that last one was. This 10500 with 1250lbs tw, I began to suspect it was creating issues. Loosened it up to check and sure enough, it was better w/o it. Now gusting wind is gusting wind and it was at that time I decided to add some better sway bars from hellwig.

Will be interesting to hear how the op's tows at or over max gvwr with that much weight behind the axles. Especially if they are towing with a half ton. You all would be surprised to know how many people , that drive half ton trucks, don't know that f150 means half ton !!!!! They believe all pick up trucks are the same. I hear this daily for 30 yearsnow.

[mkirsch]

Grit dog wrote:
Mkirsch, you’re getting too practical again….

I'm sorry. I'll try harder next time.

[nickthehunter]

Geez guys, it’s a first time poster, cut him/her some slack. Maybe you could be a little nicer and explain what you need to know and why it matters and quit being a NPA.

[Grit_dog]

Samsonsworld wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

More tongue weight is almost always better...so long as you don't overload the truck.

If you are saying too much weight up front is better than too much weight in the back, I would agree, but even with a 3/4 ton you can raise your front end considerably if you aren't balancing the load.

Not likely at all with the OPs size of trailer. And not even remotely close to removing enough steering axle weight if it’s a diesel.
Just spent the last 2 years tugging around a much bigger TH with no toys/ballast in the back and no wdh. Estimate tongue weight was 1500lbs easy. That’s how much air it took (psi calculated to lbs of load) in the bags to get the @ss end back up near zero anyways.
The steering was not light at all.
Towed like a dream, tracked as good as any bp trailer. The only issue was the speedometer fighting the fuel gauge….and winning!

[Samsonsworld]

valhalla360 wrote:

More tongue weight is almost always better...so long as you don't overload the truck.

If you are saying too much weight up front is better than too much weight in the back, I would agree, but even with a 3/4 ton you can raise your front end considerably if you aren't balancing the load.

[Grit_dog]

PS, not hard to give a half ton enough suspension to pull that trailer regardless of which direction the buggy is loaded. Not even worth discussing almost.

[Grit_dog]

Mkirsch, you’re getting too practical again….
Idk if it’s just human nature or intentional, but you’d think if someone had a serious question like this, they would A. Follow along. And B. At least make an attempt to provide basic valid information for others to use to help them with.

Instead, the peanut gallery is arguing about whether he has a half ton or a 3/4ton when he could have a Ford Ranger or a F450!

[valhalla360]

Samsonsworld wrote:
The tongue can be offset some with a distribution hitch but too much weight up front will lead too bad handling...same as too much weight on back. I've towed heavy/light, UTVs/ATVs, boats, RVs and you want 10-15% on the tongue. It's a balancing act that may take trial and error.

More tongue weight is almost always better...so long as you don't overload the truck.

If the OP has a big diesel dually, he probably get away with 20% and it will tow great (similar reason why 5ers at 20-25% tow great).

But if he's got a marginal 1/2 ton and the suspension is strung out, he may struggle with 12%.

But so far, he hasn't told us what he's got, so it's a lot of speculation.

[mkirsch]

Why the secrets? Toy hauler make and model is secret. SxS make and model is secret.

At least with the make and model of the TH, we could see what the manufacturer thinks the empty tongue weight is, which would help some with the advice.

The toy hauler manufacturer should also provide some guidance on cargo capacity for the toybox area, but again, since that's such a closely guarded secret, that's something else we're left guessing at.

Reality is probably closer to Grit Dog's comment, and the SxS just fits in the trailer with very little wiggle room. So it boils down to you haul it or you don't.

Load up and see what happens. It's going to be obvious sitting in the driveway that it's not going to work, and if not there, it will be obvious within a few miles of home. It's not going to feel "just fine" until you're 1000 miles from home, then suddenly become a problem.

[Samsonsworld]

The tongue can be offset some with a distribution hitch but too much weight up front will lead too bad handling...same as too much weight on back. I've towed heavy/light, UTVs/ATVs, boats, RVs and you want 10-15% on the tongue. It's a balancing act that may take trial and error.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

valhalla360 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, I'll be odd man out.

I would NOT put the SBS as far forward as you can. Especially if you are towing with a 1/2 ton. That's crazy.

Toy haulers are notoriously tongue heavy and you are being told to make it even more tongue heavy. Sorry, but this is the wrong thing to do.

The best thing to do is put it on a scale and load the SBS where your TH has 15% tongue weight and call it good.

I've yet to see a rear loading toy hauler (there used to be some with a front loading bay) where the toys sit in front of the axles. So the toy isn't going to increase the tongue weight.

The reason empty toy haulers are tongue heavy is to compensate for the fact the heavy toy will be behind the axles and reduce tongue weight once loaded. The OP is putting a very heavy toy (relative to the payload capacity), so he very likely needs to get the center of gravity of the toy as far forward as possible or he risks being too light on tongue weight.

Of course, we see a toy hauler that is likely maxed out or over weight once loaded (he only as 700lb left after loading the toy), good chance he has an under spec'd truck...so far he has not came back and shared any info on the actual truck or trailer. There is a good chance the tongue weight will push the truck over it's payload.

I do agree with you that actually getting scaled weights makes a lot of sense and 15% would be a good target though it may overload his truck. I wouldn't go under 12% though...starts to become a bit of a game when running everything at max.

Ya, I understand that. My point was, my 30' travel trailer crushed my 3/4 ton diesel pickup. It is SUPER tongue heavy and it's not even a Th'er. Just a regular old TT. I never have taken a tongue weight so I don't know what it is other than it's super heavy. And it's only 9K loaded. I did weigh that.

I have no idea what the OP is towing his TH'er with, but that size it could be a 1/2 ton? If so, that's going to get ugly with tongue weight.

I would never advise anybody to load even more weight on the tongue (I guess I should say, take less weight off of the tongue) when I don't even know what he is towing with? But that's just me.

Steering control was pretty bad and I was owl hunting with my headlights until I bagged my truck and really hogged up on my WD. It took me many trips to get it just the way I wanted it. Now my truck is dead level with a tiny bit of down hill trailer angle.

That's why I said the best thing to do is weigh the rig and get the 15% tongue weight or whatever is within the trucks payload rating.

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
Any suggestions for this new guy would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I would load the combo up and make a short run and see how the combo handles.
If it suits your expectations thats great....if it needs attention then is the time to fix that issue(s).

First tho.....As others mention get your trucks unladen axle weights.
Then load the trailer and hitch it all up and get truck and trailer axle weights.
JMO ..anyone who wants to carry weight in their vehicle should know that vehicles unladen separate axle weights. Don't depend on brochure weights.

[Grit_dog]

The advice on which end of the buggy to load forward is also not something anyone can advise although it may be the right choice, we don’t know.
There ain’t going to be room to load the thing sitting further forward or aft most likely.
Just by the bread crumbs the OP gave (buggy and trailer weights) it is most likely a very large sxs in a small toyhauler. Most likely scenario is it barely fits in there, front to back.
Icbw

[valhalla360]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, I'll be odd man out.

I would NOT put the SBS as far forward as you can. Especially if you are towing with a 1/2 ton. That's crazy.

Toy haulers are notoriously tongue heavy and you are being told to make it even more tongue heavy. Sorry, but this is the wrong thing to do.

The best thing to do is put it on a scale and load the SBS where your TH has 15% tongue weight and call it good.

I've yet to see a rear loading toy hauler (there used to be some with a front loading bay) where the toys sit in front of the axles. So the toy isn't going to increase the tongue weight.

The reason empty toy haulers are tongue heavy is to compensate for the fact the heavy toy will be behind the axles and reduce tongue weight once loaded. The OP is putting a very heavy toy (relative to the payload capacity), so he very likely needs to get the center of gravity of the toy as far forward as possible or he risks being too light on tongue weight.

Of course, we see a toy hauler that is likely maxed out or over weight once loaded (he only as 700lb left after loading the toy), good chance he has an under spec'd truck...so far he has not came back and shared any info on the actual truck or trailer. There is a good chance the tongue weight will push the truck over it's payload.

I do agree with you that actually getting scaled weights makes a lot of sense and 15% would be a good target though it may overload his truck. I wouldn't go under 12% though...starts to become a bit of a game when running everything at max.