A top to bottom look at green energy

[Huntindog]

I struggled with deciding in which forum to start this discussion. It could be germane to a lot of them. But since the Tesla thread has had so much activity, and Tesla's technology is central in the conversation, I figured this would do well here.

Since we as a country, will be joining quite a few other countries in trying to go green, has anyone looked at all aspects of just what is involved. from the child labor that produces some of the rare elements, to just how scaleable producing them can be? They are called rare for a reason. Is it possible to produce enough to supply the world with enough? At what cost?
What about all of the energy used to produce, and refine them? What about the energy required to produce the machinery required to produce the machines that produce the machines? In short can we ever get to a point where we are truly green from top to bottom?
Since energy from the Sun is plentiful and free, this would seem to be a no brainer. But I have a nagging feeling that even though we should, we won't get there.
In order to get there, we need to do an "audit" if you will of the entire idea. Shoot holes in it. Expose it's weaknesses. Only then will it's strengths become something to focus on.
Carbon neutral, Net zero etc. are buzzwords that are tossed around a lot... What they really mean is that we are still polluting. Just not as much, or that this pollution is OK as it is "offset"(another buzzword) by some form of green.



I have many. many more questions, and I am sure there are more out there that I haven't even thought of.

I look forward to a lively discussion

[Reisender]

Whoops. Double post.

[Reisender]

shelbyfv wrote:
Most of us enjoy lives much more comfortable, healthy and secure than those of our grandparents. Thank science. Think about who is promoting this current anti-science insanity and question their motives. Why is it so threatening to admit that there are folks who are smarter, better educated and have more understanding of these issues than a bunch of us sitting around the firepit? The debate over human caused climate change was over 10 years ago among legitimate scientists. The idea that corrective alternatives have to be cheaper than what we are doing now is absurd. We'll do what we have to, pay what we have to, or we'll be screwed worse than we already are.Y'all like the red? Shows I'm special too.:R

Lol. Loved the red.

[shelbyfv]

Most of us enjoy lives much more comfortable, healthy and secure than those of our grandparents. Thank science. Think about who is promoting this current anti-science insanity and question their motives. Why is it so threatening to admit that there are folks who are smarter, better educated and have more understanding of these issues than a bunch of us sitting around the firepit? The debate over human caused climate change was over 10 years ago among legitimate scientists. The idea that corrective alternatives have to be cheaper than what we are doing now is absurd. We'll do what we have to, pay what we have to, or we'll be screwed worse than we already are.Y'all like the red? Shows I'm special too.:R

[thomas201]

Chinese People's Volunteer Army capture Seoul in January 1951
Chinese invasion of Tibet in 1950
The occupation of Outer Mongolia by the Beiyang government of the Republic of China began in October 1919 and lasted until 18 March 1921
Sino-Soviet border conflict 1969
Sino-Indian War 1962
2020 China–India skirmishes are part of an ongoing military standoff between China and India. Since 5 May 2020, Chinese and Indian troops have engaged in aggressive melee, face-offs and skirmishes at locations along the Sino-Indian border

Yep the Chinese have never invaded anybody. Why should they be different than us, we are all Mark 1, Mod 0 humans.

[free_radical]

Me Again wrote:

free radical wrote:

Did you know that Taliban from neigborin Afganistan atacked Tibet China and murdered thousands of civilians not long ago tryin to instal Sharia law?
Why dont western media report on that?
Yet
China still allows ALL religions including Islam and even has 35.000 Islamic Mosques.

Along this 47 mile border area?

"China shares only a small mountainous border with Afghanistan that is virtually
impassable and barely inhabited. Beijing’s involvement with Afghanistan increased during
the Taliban rule, after Chinese Uighurs trying to stoke an insurgency among southwest
China’s Muslim population took sanctuary and training among the Afghans. Some Uighurs
also fought together with the Taliban and al Qaeda. Lest it again become a safe haven
for foreign militants under the protection of radical Islamists, China’s present interests lie
with an Afghanistan that is politically stable and enjoying reconstruction. Yet Beijing’s
contribution to date has been relatively modest, a mere $150 million pledged by late
2005 compared with $900 million from Japan. Of late, China seems mostly engaged in
using diplomatic means to thwart an open-ended U.S. military presence in Afghanistan
and the region."

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/sr162.pdf

Pardon me if I take any US gov info with large grain of salt

We are fed endles anti china BS mainly bc US needs an enemy somewhere to justify
Spending money on military and

Invading other countries and stealing their resources,
Weapons of mass destruction Iraq rings a bell?

China never invaded any country so I see no need to fear them.

China has over 60 milion muslims so Taliban would like to infiltrate and radicalize and destroy chinese system
What do you think our Goverment would do IF muslims try same thing here


I noticed that Google and YT is blocking any positive news on China
No doubt cia works
Try searching YT for

Fighting terrorism in Xinjiang

YT blocks sharing the link,freedom of speach LOL


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

[Cummins12V98]

Nothing "Clean or Green" about any of this.

[ppine]

I used to live with a nuclear engineer. I have worked on several projects related to nuclear testing at the Nevada Test Site.

The problem with nuclear power is what to do with the waste that is generated. We have no good answers. We have tried a lot of bad experiments.

[Me_Again]

free radical wrote:

Did you know that Taliban from neigborin Afganistan atacked Tibet China and murdered thousands of civilians not long ago tryin to instal Sharia law?
Why dont western media report on that?
Yet
China still allows ALL religions including Islam and even has 35.000 Islamic Mosques.

Along this 47 mile border area?

"China shares only a small mountainous border with Afghanistan that is virtually
impassable and barely inhabited. Beijing’s involvement with Afghanistan increased during
the Taliban rule, after Chinese Uighurs trying to stoke an insurgency among southwest
China’s Muslim population took sanctuary and training among the Afghans. Some Uighurs
also fought together with the Taliban and al Qaeda. Lest it again become a safe haven
for foreign militants under the protection of radical Islamists, China’s present interests lie
with an Afghanistan that is politically stable and enjoying reconstruction. Yet Beijing’s
contribution to date has been relatively modest, a mere $150 million pledged by late
2005 compared with $900 million from Japan. Of late, China seems mostly engaged in
using diplomatic means to thwart an open-ended U.S. military presence in Afghanistan
and the region."

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/sr162.pdf

[GDS-3950BH]

Huntindog wrote:
As far as trains go, I imagine the enviromental
study could be wrapped up in 10-20 years. :B

:B

Only currently does the 10-20 years apply.
In about a month that will change to 20-40 years and the price of the study will quadruple while they search for the ever elusive Unicorn fart as a power source, Come on man!.

[Huntindog]

As far as trains go, I imagine the enviromental
study could be wrapped up in 10-20 years. :B

[GDS-3950BH]

free radical wrote:

Reisender wrote:

GDS-3950BH wrote:

free radical wrote:
I dont think we can go full green energy anytime soon,bc airplanes for example will need FF for long time yet

However for shorter cross country trip electric high speed trains would do better,especialy for people who dont like to fly

But then we would have to hire chinese or Japanese to build it as our leaders dont seem to know how.

China high speed railways

https://youtu.be/aXo7wi488Eo

Where do they get power to run,,hydroelectric,wind,solar,etc and now

China already leads in renewable energy

https://youtu.be/Lvem_WvLiDU

How can they acomplish so much in such short time

China is run by engineers and well educated scientists,financial experts,not by some washed out tv personality science denier.

https://youtu.be/A3SbhDZtFsk

China is investing in infrastructure,roads,bridges,housing creating jobs for everyone and not wastin money on military no doubt helps.

https://youtu.be/TbyBKTqnkdo

They're the greatest, just follow the rules though or end up being sent to work camp or possibly just dissappear altogether. Those silly Chinese. Perhaps you should move there.

Lots of high speed train manufacturers out there. Spanish, French, German, Japanese. Spend some time on high speed train transport and you might change your tune a bit.

I dont dispute that,
so why cant we build such high speed railways here.?
Its obviously cleaner then burning fosil fuels.
Also
Japanese bullet trains have been trouble free over 40 years running,why are our slow trains so accident prone?
Could be that asians work ethics are better.


https://youtu.be/JWuT_yeQ0PY

Here is some help with your problem.

[free_radical]

Reisender wrote:

GDS-3950BH wrote:

free radical wrote:
I dont think we can go full green energy anytime soon,bc airplanes for example will need FF for long time yet

However for shorter cross country trip electric high speed trains would do better,especialy for people who dont like to fly

But then we would have to hire chinese or Japanese to build it as our leaders dont seem to know how.

China high speed railways

https://youtu.be/aXo7wi488Eo

Where do they get power to run,,hydroelectric,wind,solar,etc and now

China already leads in renewable energy

https://youtu.be/Lvem_WvLiDU

How can they acomplish so much in such short time

China is run by engineers and well educated scientists,financial experts,not by some washed out tv personality science denier.

https://youtu.be/A3SbhDZtFsk

China is investing in infrastructure,roads,bridges,housing creating jobs for everyone and not wastin money on military no doubt helps.

https://youtu.be/TbyBKTqnkdo

They're the greatest, just follow the rules though or end up being sent to work camp or possibly just dissappear altogether. Those silly Chinese. Perhaps you should move there.

Lots of high speed train manufacturers out there. Spanish, French, German, Japanese. Spend some time on high speed train transport and you might change your tune a bit.

I dont dispute that,
so why cant we build such high speed railways here.?
Its obviously cleaner then burning fosil fuels.
Also
Japanese bullet trains have been trouble free over 40 years running,why are our slow trains so accident prone?
Could be that asians work ethics are better.


https://youtu.be/JWuT_yeQ0PY

[free_radical]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

free radical wrote:
I dont think we can go full green energy anytime soon,bc airplanes for example will need FF for long time yet

However for shorter cross country trip electric high speed trains would do better,especialy for people who dont like to fly

But then we would have to hire chinese or Japanese to build it as our leaders dont seem to know how.

China high speed railways

https://youtu.be/aXo7wi488Eo

Where do they get power to run,,hydroelectric,wind,solar,etc and now

China already leads in renewable energy

https://youtu.be/Lvem_WvLiDU

How can they acomplish so much in such short time

China is run by engineers and well educated scientists,financial experts,not by some washed out tv personality science denier.

https://youtu.be/A3SbhDZtFsk

China is investing in infrastructure,roads,bridges,housing creating jobs for everyone and not wastin money on military no doubt helps.

https://youtu.be/TbyBKTqnkdo

They're the greatest, just follow the rules though or end up being sent to work camp or possibly just dissappear altogether. Those silly Chinese. Perhaps you should move there.

Have you ever seen any Our News network post positive Truthful facts about China like I just did here?
They cant,why not?
and you wanna brag about Freedom o Speach,seriously.

Oh yes the work camps,
Did you know that Taliban from neigborin Afganistan atacked Tibet China and murdered thousands of civilians not long ago tryin to instal Sharia law?
Why dont western media report on that?
Yet
China still allows ALL religions including Islam and even has 35.000 Islamic Mosques.

https://youtu.be/soPJESgkE5k

Maybe we should have work camps too,so we wouldnt have so many homeless Lol

I talk w many western expats livin in china and they all love it
Plenty o work low cost livin and no homeles junkies,
Its simple China executes drug pushers and life is good

See Reforterfy media travel if you dont believe me
https://youtu.be/yIbmL17P3nc
Or try
Gweilo60 or Nathan Rich or Blondie in China or Mexicanos in china or
Richard Augilar chanel,good luck getin woke

Most americans big egos cant accept that some other system is better
Especialy if it has comunism name,but china uses capitalist system also as the largest number of Bilionaires in the world proves.

What democracy means to chinese
https://youtu.be/nl59t---30g

[Reisender]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

free radical wrote:
I dont think we can go full green energy anytime soon,bc airplanes for example will need FF for long time yet

However for shorter cross country trip electric high speed trains would do better,especialy for people who dont like to fly

But then we would have to hire chinese or Japanese to build it as our leaders dont seem to know how.

China high speed railways

https://youtu.be/aXo7wi488Eo

Where do they get power to run,,hydroelectric,wind,solar,etc and now

China already leads in renewable energy

https://youtu.be/Lvem_WvLiDU

How can they acomplish so much in such short time

China is run by engineers and well educated scientists,financial experts,not by some washed out tv personality science denier.

https://youtu.be/A3SbhDZtFsk

China is investing in infrastructure,roads,bridges,housing creating jobs for everyone and not wastin money on military no doubt helps.

https://youtu.be/TbyBKTqnkdo

They're the greatest, just follow the rules though or end up being sent to work camp or possibly just dissappear altogether. Those silly Chinese. Perhaps you should move there.

Lots of high speed train manufacturers out there. Spanish, French, German, Japanese. Spend some time on high speed train transport and you might change your tune a bit.