Anyone made the dive to Lithium and had it in four seasons?

[J_Duncan]

Just got a 2011 Northern Lite 10'2 and am looking to get some good batteries for this new adventure mobile. I am just coming out of a self made camper van and had a decent setup with AGM's. All I'm reading is how much these new lithium batteries are the rage. Don't know if anyone has bought them and put them to the test in a northern lite style battery holder, you know the exterior boxes that are built into the side of the camper. I have read that the really good batteries (battle born) and internal BMK's that stops charging when the temp gets to hot or to cold, so I was wondering if there was anyone who had done some decent time with them in different temperature environments and what their experiences had given them for a base line in making the switch. Thanks in advance for your time.

[Kayteg1]

Good thing we have lot of choices.
When I used parts from my TC to build Sprinter conversion - I did not want hassle of propane.
Having 4-cylinder diesel who can run whole night on 1 or 1.5 gallons of diesel, I figured out I can always use Sprinter engine as generator (250 amp alternator).
Even I have couple of generators of different sizes- most of campgrounds don't allow running generators at night.
Never seen 1 who would forbid running the engine whole night 😉

[StirCrazy]

3 tons wrote:

srschang wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
why is this an issue at all? If you have a proper solar set up do you need power from the truck? I disconected that part of my wiring so I only have the solar set up powering the camper when I am not pluged into power.

Steve

Same here, BUT I have 4 panels installed to charge my 2 100ah Battle Borns. We've never run out of power, but there have been rainy days where the batteries only get back up to 90% charged.

I wasn't sure if it would be OK to have the 14.6v from the camper converter backfeeding into the truck batteries / electrical system, so I disconnected the 12v cable from the truck.

Exactly, with the exception if running a compressor refrigerator during inclement weather...

yess that would be a reason to have 12V available if your driving at night. I use propane for the fridge, but I didnt want to take the chance that something would suck the truck batteries down while I was camping.

Steve

[Siletzspey]

J.Duncan wrote:
Would you mind providing pictures and descriptions of equipment procured and set up, it sounds like you have it dialed in for what I’m looking to do.

Attached are two diagrams with embedded comments.

I personally felt 60A of alternator charging into 2 x 100Ah batteries was adequate, and that I was avoiding some safety, longevity and cost issues by NOT pushing for 100A+ of charging. I was shooting for a happy medium.

While the 2AWG wire and Sterling charger are mostly installed, I have not yet turned that part of the system on. I have been stunned at how well 300W of solar into 200Ah of LiFePO4 has been working.

http://www.barbless.com/share/www-rv-net/201010-NL-LiFePO4-Overview.png
http://www.barbless.com/share/www-rv-net/201010-NL-LiFePO4-Wiring.png
http://www.barbless.com/share/www-rv-net/201010-NL-LiFePO4-Picture.jpg
http://www.barbless.com/share/www-rv-net/201010-NL-LiFePO4-Picture2.jpg
http://www.barbless.com/share/www-rv-net/201010-NL-LiFePO4-Picture3.jpg

--tg

[toddb]

3 tons wrote:


Exactly, with the exception if running a compressor refrigerator during inclement weather...

I put in a 110w dc-dc charger to keep up with my compressor fridge. I have been shutting the solar off on the drive home. It's worked out well with the battery drawn down to ~50-60% when we get back so I can just disconnect.

[Kayteg1]

srschang wrote:


I wasn't sure if it would be OK to have the 14.6v from the camper converter backfeeding into the truck batteries / electrical system, so I disconnected the 12v cable from the truck.

You must drive Dodge, as Ford has trailer charging relay?
But regardless, B2B charger should prevent it.
This is leading us into higher end technology, where battery monitors can be $300 units, who have artificial intelligence.
Beside the high cost, ask yourself if you are educated enough to troubleshoot the system when something goes wrong?
And being that new technology, with limited demand - baby teeth are expected.

[3_tons]

srschang wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
why is this an issue at all? If you have a proper solar set up do you need power from the truck? I disconected that part of my wiring so I only have the solar set up powering the camper when I am not pluged into power.

Steve

Same here, BUT I have 4 panels installed to charge my 2 100ah Battle Borns. We've never run out of power, but there have been rainy days where the batteries only get back up to 90% charged.

I wasn't sure if it would be OK to have the 14.6v from the camper converter backfeeding into the truck batteries / electrical system, so I disconnected the 12v cable from the truck.

Exactly, with the exception if running a compressor refrigerator during inclement weather...

[srschang]

StirCrazy wrote:
why is this an issue at all? If you have a proper solar set up do you need power from the truck? I disconected that part of my wiring so I only have the solar set up powering the camper when I am not pluged into power.

Steve

Same here, BUT I have 4 panels installed to charge my 2 100ah Battle Borns. We've never run out of power, but there have been rainy days where the batteries only get back up to 90% charged.

I wasn't sure if it would be OK to have the 14.6v from the camper converter backfeeding into the truck batteries / electrical system, so I disconnected the 12v cable from the truck.

[StirCrazy]

why is this an issue at all? If you have a proper solar set up do you need power from the truck? I disconected that part of my wiring so I only have the solar set up powering the camper when I am not pluged into power.

Steve

[J_Duncan]

Siletzspey wrote:

Bert the Welder wrote:
use of the second alt ... big ga. wire ... 7-pin

The challenge is battling "voltage drop" over long lengths of charger wires.

Though a typical alternator puts out ~14.4V, that voltage drops to 13.some volts over a typical 7-pin setup where the NEG and POS wires are typically 10-12ga. My 2015 F350 has 10ga for NEG/POS, and be warned some umbilical cords use down to 16ga for POS/NEG. Below 13.6V delivered volts, a LiFePO4 won't really pull current and thus charge. Ideally you want 14.4V+ delivered volts for a LiFePO4 battery to quickly and fully charge, and to enable the LiFePO4 BMS to do cell balancing.

For lead acid batteries, most people report getting 5-10A of anemic charging off the 7-pin, and I believe the 7-pin connectors themselves are only rated for ~30A, and truck manufacturers usually fuse the POS wire at 30-40A.



Some people run LARGE (1/0AWG+) dedicated copper wires thru say Anderson Connectors, but don't under-estimate the weight and EXPENSE of such a setup, and you'll often still be getting suboptimal voltages. At 45' one-way of 1/0AWG wire, 14.4V drops to 13.9V under a hypothetical 60A load.

The increasingly common approach is to install a DC-to-DC charger that can boost the voltage coming off your wiring into what the LiFePO4s want for optimal charging, and it can limit the current draw on your alternator.

Speaking of a second alternator... picking on a 100Ah BattleBorn, the max-max charge rate is 100A, and the recommended max charge rate is 50A, and the longevity of the battery can be further increased by not even pushing 50A.

It begs the question, how big will your battery bank be? Two or eight 100Ah batteries? How fast do you want to charge?

With my 2 100Ah BattleBorns, I went with a 60A DC-to-DC charger so that each gets 30A, and if a battery BMS happens to shut off, dumping all 60A into a single battery won't be fatal. 60A into the batteries translates into a load of 60-80A on the alternator, which is well within the ability of a single and typical 200A truck alternator to deliver. With just 60A of charging for a 200Ah bank, I don't need to drive much to recharge from empty.

--tg

Would you mind providing pictures and descriptions of equipment procured and set up, it sounds like you have it dialed in for what I’m looking to do.

[Siletzspey]

Bert the Welder wrote:
use of the second alt ... big ga. wire ... 7-pin

The challenge is battling "voltage drop" over long lengths of charger wires.

Though a typical alternator puts out ~14.4V, that voltage drops to 13.some volts over a typical 7-pin setup where the NEG and POS wires are typically 10-12ga. My 2015 F350 has 10ga for NEG/POS, and be warned some umbilical cords use down to 16ga for POS/NEG. Below 13.6V delivered volts, a LiFePO4 won't really pull current and thus charge. Ideally you want 14.4V+ delivered volts for a LiFePO4 battery to quickly and fully charge, and to enable the LiFePO4 BMS to do cell balancing.

For lead acid batteries, most people report getting 5-10A of anemic charging off the 7-pin, and I believe the 7-pin connectors themselves are only rated for ~30A, and truck manufacturers usually fuse the POS wire at 30-40A.

Some people run LARGE (1/0AWG+) dedicated copper wires thru say Anderson Connectors, but don't under-estimate the weight and EXPENSE of such a setup, and you'll often still be getting suboptimal voltages. At 45' one-way of 1/0AWG wire, 14.4V drops to 13.9V under a hypothetical 60A load.

The increasingly common approach is to install a DC-to-DC charger that can boost the voltage coming off your wiring into what the LiFePO4s want for optimal charging, and it can limit the current draw on your alternator.

Speaking of a second alternator... picking on a 100Ah BattleBorn, the max-max charge rate is 100A, and the recommended max charge rate is 50A, and the longevity of the battery can be further increased by not even pushing 50A.

It begs the question, how big will your battery bank be? Two or eight 100Ah batteries? How fast do you want to charge?

With my 2 100Ah BattleBorns, I went with a 60A DC-to-DC charger so that each gets 30A, and if a battery BMS happens to shut off, dumping all 60A into a single battery won't be fatal. 60A into the batteries translates into a load of 60-80A on the alternator, which is well within the ability of a single and typical 200A truck alternator to deliver. With just 60A of charging for a 200Ah bank, I don't need to drive much to recharge from empty.

--tg

[Kayteg1]

Bert the Welder wrote:


Does the second alt still need some connection to the truck "brain" so charging is disconnected when the truck is turned off, so doesn't drain the truck batt. or is it not hooked up to the trucks "brain" at all and a stand alone automatic or manual on/off switch installed in-line?

My 2017 Ford has dual alternators as that was required for electric cabin heater, but from my research the 2nd alternator is integrated part of the system and not easy separable.
My Sprinter has electric cabin heater as well, but 250 amp alternator solves the need for more charging.
What I mentioned is that on Sprinters - owners who go that far add 2nd alternator with independent house charging system.
Again - this is for people who don't mind to spend few thousand$$ on the projects and no offence, but average Sprinter owner seems to be well better educated than average TC owner.
Bottom line - such project is not for just anybody.

[J_Duncan]

Bert the Welder wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:

J.Duncan wrote:


B2B charger could you elaborate?

Battery 2 Battery charger.
Lithium batteries operate with higher voltage than truck alternator provides, so you need B2B charger and also solar charger + converter who can adjust the voltage.
Some RV owners have power obsession and Sprinters owner are generally willing to spend more money on gadgets, than TC owners.
Cover your roof with solar panels, add lithium battery bank, replace chargers with computerized system and you can easy spend 5 grands on the project.
Some owners make 2nd alternator just for lithium charging.

This use of the second alt. as a charger is interesting, especially being in the market for a new truck. So for those of us in the cheap seats and if you don't mind expanding on it:

Does the second alt get disconnected completely from the trucks systems?

Does a big ga. wire from it replace the existing charge wire from the primary alt. running back to the truck bed plug that the camper plugs into, like the standard 7-pin or is it run to a separate connector and is in addition to the stock 7-pin charging wire?

Does the second alt still need some connection to the truck "brain" so charging is disconnected when the truck is turned off, so doesn't drain the truck batt. or is it not hooked up to the trucks "brain" at all and a stand alone automatic or manual on/off switch installed in-line?

Thanks for the info. 🙂

This Video goes very in depth on the second alternator experiences and explains his lessons learned well.

[Bert_the_Welder]

Kayteg1 wrote:

J.Duncan wrote:


B2B charger could you elaborate?

Battery 2 Battery charger.
Lithium batteries operate with higher voltage than truck alternator provides, so you need B2B charger and also solar charger + converter who can adjust the voltage.
Some RV owners have power obsession and Sprinters owner are generally willing to spend more money on gadgets, than TC owners.
Cover your roof with solar panels, add lithium battery bank, replace chargers with computerized system and you can easy spend 5 grands on the project.
Some owners make 2nd alternator just for lithium charging.

This use of the second alt. as a charger is interesting, especially being in the market for a new truck. So for those of us in the cheap seats and if you don't mind expanding on it:

Does the second alt get disconnected completely from the trucks systems?

Does a big ga. wire from it replace the existing charge wire from the primary alt. running back to the truck bed plug that the camper plugs into, like the standard 7-pin or is it run to a separate connector and is in addition to the stock 7-pin charging wire?

Does the second alt still need some connection to the truck "brain" so charging is disconnected when the truck is turned off, so doesn't drain the truck batt. or is it not hooked up to the trucks "brain" at all and a stand alone automatic or manual on/off switch installed in-line?

Thanks for the info. 🙂

[Kayteg1]

J.Duncan wrote:


B2B charger could you elaborate?

Battery 2 Battery charger.
Lithium batteries operate with higher voltage than truck alternator provides, so you need B2B charger and also solar charger + converter who can adjust the voltage.
Some RV owners have power obsession and Sprinters owner are generally willing to spend more money on gadgets, than TC owners.
Cover your roof with solar panels, add lithium battery bank, replace chargers with computerized system and you can easy spend 5 grands on the project.
Some owners make 2nd alternator just for lithium charging.