Experience/Opinions on a 2008 F450 for Towing

[rowekmr]

I tried a search and only came up with a thread illustrating the turning radius and a payload debate.

I am looking online at a 08 F450 that has 139k with an utility bed on it and no information on the history (auction). The cab paint (doesn't match utility bed) and interior options look like a loaded Lariat so I assume it isn't a cab chassis model. I was going to check it out in person and see how it runs and pull any codes.

My purpose was to either put a pick up bed (is it different size than F350) or flat bed and gooseneck or 5th wheel and do short radius part time hauling. I was looking into hotshot and car hauling (possibly both with flat bed trailer)

First let me say I know the 6.4L has a checkered history and only used for 2 years in Ford pick ups. I briefly drove a F450 single cab chassis stake bed that me and heavy diesel tech bought. When we got it the company mechanic said the engine was totaled puking coolant and oil mixing. We got it for cheap and he replaced the front engine cover (hard to find one back then) and replaced either the oil cooler or EGR cooler and we sold it. I did drive it for about 4 hours and it did drink gas (16 mpg empty IIRC) but I like the specs of the heavier duty brakes, tires, and rear end for hauling.

The issues I recall for that engine are top end issues with rockers, cracked pistons, leaking radiators, emission issues from extended idling. I know the heavy diesel tech would replace the rockers on many he serviced. He would also use a different piston in them (IH?), the aftermarket has a brace and all medal radiator to address the leaking radiators.

I'm not interested in a used 6.7L at this time so no need to talk about its attributes. I towed RV trailers with a new one part time for 1 year about 10k miles so I know how great they are but that one was on a commercial lease and I'm looking to build a tow vehicle cheap with cash.

Now they have been out a long time I was wondering if there were any other big issues or aftermarket solutions. I'm not dead set on getting it just seriously considering but wanted to hear from the experts here where I tend to get all my truck info.

The pro for me is hopefully I would get it cheap. The engine when it is running right is purported to be pretty strong stock and a beast if tuned. Give me a cheaper entry point into a heavy hauler that for now I would only used 2-3 days a week. If something went terribly south just sell it for small loss or part it out vs the 40-75K I see for newer to new trucks.

Is the frame the same as a F350? Wondered so when shopping for beds.

Was only the 4.88 rear gear available or did they also come with 4.30's?

I see a good number of 6.4L's for sale over 150-175k with engine issues (at auction) is it poor maintenance, driver abuse, extended idling or just its design. I thought I heard that the 6.4L's used in MDT faired better without the Ford installed emissions but never saw hard proof of that.

[LIKE2BUILD]

rowekmr wrote:
Unfortunately I have a preference for Ford on trucks.

If that's the case and you can get this truck for a super cheap price then your best bet is to do a Cummins swap. Destroked is a place that sells complete kits to swap a Cummins into these trucks. I'm sure there are others but that is one that I know of. It's probably not cheap, but it will get you a longer lasting engine for the F450.

KJ

[blofgren]

A fellow I work with bought a beautiful brand new 2008 F-350 CC 4x4 LB SRW Lariat 6.4L in 2008. Back then everyone was up to their eyeballs in frustration with the 6.0L engine and the 6.4L was the best thing since sliced bread. At the time I was impressed at how quiet and smooth the truck was.

The heaviest load that the truck ever towed was a 20' ski boat and even that was very rare. He complained of the horrible fuel mileage the truck got even driving solo and had it back to Ford several times for various tests, computer reflashes, etc. Nothing seemed to help this issue out much. He finally ended up deleting the truck and almost doubled his fuel economy.

At about 140k kms the injector pump took a dump and contaminated the fuel system. I can't remember exactly how much this cost him (it was out of warranty by then), but I do remember the shop telling him that although the injectors tested OK at the time, they recommended replacing them. He couldn't afford to do them and they ended up completing the repair and away he went.

At about 170k kms he was driving and had a sudden loss of power and a TON of smoke out of the exhaust. He pulled over and had the truck towed to the diesel shop that he had been using for some time and is well known for good work in this area. That's when he had the bad news that an injector had stuck open and that the engine was toast. He got the same news from the shop that Bill talks about in his video about lack of 6.4L engines and parts for them.

We talked about it and I told him that it would probably be best for him to sell the truck as is for whatever he could get and shop for something newer. We also did discuss the possibility of putting a Cummins in the truck. He loved the truck and ended up having the truck install a deleted Cummins 6.7L in it. The job took several months due to time sourcing a good engine and it was the first one that the shop had done. It turned out very well, but IMHO it cost way too much money. If it were me I would have sold the truck and bought a newer Ram/Cummins.

I took a bath on my 6.0L truck, but nothing like him. I truly felt sorry for him because it was a stressful, expensive experience for him.

[ib516]

rowekmr wrote:
Thanks everyone. I looked all over and the consensus is that they are bad engines besides the die hard owners who stand by them.

I was shocked that even Bill at PowerstrokeHelp on YouTube recently made a video declaring he won't work on them anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiB6IbPs2Zk

CLICKY

All I can say is wow. What a POS.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

rowekmr wrote:
Thanks everyone. I looked all over and the consensus is that they are bad engines besides the die hard owners who stand by them.

I was shocked that even Bill at PowerstrokeHelp on YouTube recently made a video declaring he won't work on them anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiB6IbPs2Zk

Ok, the best comment I saw was:

"The 6.4 is like a hot girl with an STD!!!!" :B

I don't care how big of a fan boi you are, that's funny!

The old saying from an old tech friend of mine was:
The 6.0 is junk.
The 6.4 is expensive junk.

[rowekmr]

Thanks everyone. I looked all over and the consensus is that they are bad engines besides the die hard owners who stand by them.

I was shocked that even Bill at PowerstrokeHelp on YouTube recently made a video declaring he won't work on them anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiB6IbPs2Zk

[ksss]

It is hard to find many supporters of the 6.4L. The lawsuit paperwork spells out that the 6.4 was thought to inferior to the 6.0 if you can believe that is possible. IH built some great engines in their day, the 466 being one of them along with the 6.9 and 7.3, but they have had their share of mechanical disasters. The 6.4 is certainly at or near the top of that list. At the end of the day, you still have to depend on it and be able to afford to keep it running. Every dollar spent on keeping a 6.4 running is a dollar you will never see back. Expensive to own (both in mpg and repairs) and have horrible resale value. I dont know what the best options are for you, but a Cummins conversion certainly could be a possible solution. Buy a 450 with a 6.4 for salvage price and then make it how you want it. Personally having an 09 Ford F450 and whatever year Cummins and what ever one off parts list that makes the two work together would not interest me. It works for some people though.

[jerem0621]

I’d steer clear and look for one with a V10.

Thanks!

[6_7_tow_rig]

My experience with a 2008 6.4 was atrocious. Injectors, radiators, and rear main seals. Do yourself a favor and run as far as you can from 6.4 Powerstroke

[carringb]

rowekmr wrote:

You know I am also a fan of the V-10's you gave me advice on my first 2 when I joined this forum and was new to tow vehicles and travel trailers. For this tow vehicle I wanted to be able to tow up to 24K trailer weight (incl cargo). I have seen gasser roll back tow trucks but haven't seen any gasser hot shot's yet. Could the V10 reliably tow that?

🙂

Almost all new roll-backs I've seen in service have gone with the V10.

You are right about hot-shots, but for them, fuel cost is a much higher percentage of total cost of ownership. And fuel range matters more for them too, vs a rollback which will be fueled at the end of each shift typically.

But at 24k trailer weight, you'd be around 33,000 combined weight. That's more than the factory rating with 4.88 gears. In fact, it tops out at 28,000 pounds, as that's the only ratio offered. Deeper gears requires stepping up to the F650. Then the V10 goes up to 37,000 combined.

Reliability at max combined weights wouldn't worry me. But if you go over GCWR, you might run into grade-ability issues (like you might not be able to launch from a stop on a 15% grade at 33,000 combined). And I'd still pick an overloaded V10 over any 6.4L.

[ib516]

Decent chassis and trans, junk engine. The 6.4L has a habit of self destructing. I'd keep looking.

[rowekmr]

Unfortunately I have a preference for Ford on trucks. I had a Dmax (LBZ) and a Cummins 6.7L and neither was cheap to repair and I prefer the interior of the Ford.
I prefer automatic transmissions.
I have looked at day cab single axles but that brings up different set of questions since I know less about them. The modern MDT's are overpriced in my book. I have seen some older International MDT's with the DT466/Allison that I heard was reliable but some shipping clients have an age limit on trucks I have heard too.

Grit dog wrote:
If you re-read your post, you kind of answered your own question.
Fantastic chassis, not fantastic engine.
If you can get it for cheap enough that installing/painting a truck bed, a new engine and whatever other little stuff you see would t put you over it’s retail value by much then my answer would be a solid maybe. And if the engine holds up you win.
AND if you could delete it if necessary. (Same for any brand pre def truck)
Question is how much are you hauling?
IMO there are better choices in that age range. Namely either other brand.
And if you need the chassis of a truck that big, go Dodge/Sterling.
Older truck, heavy hauling, getting a manual trans would be preferable too.

That said, there are plenty of older Cummins and Dmax on their second engine too. I attribute it to maintenance and people not knowing what they’re doing with tuners and Diesel engines in general.

[rowekmr]

..unless you hate yourself lol 🙂

You know I am also a fan of the V-10's you gave me advice on my first 2 when I joined this forum and was new to tow vehicles and travel trailers. For this tow vehicle I wanted to be able to tow up to 24K trailer weight (incl cargo). I have seen gasser roll back tow trucks but haven't seen any gasser hot shot's yet. Could the V10 reliably tow that?

carringb wrote:
An F450 with 4.88 gears would be a cab-chassis model. The 4.30 gears came on the pickup chassis.

Either way, I'd stay away from the 6.4L unless you hate yourself. The MDT versions weren't really any better. Sure, some of the emissions components were more robust, but the engine-killer problems were inherent to the engine design. I'd only buy one if the chassis were cheap enough to justify a Cummins swap.

The high fuel consumption is also inherent to the 6.4L. You could expect V10 like fuel economy overall, slightly better on the highway, worse in town. On that note, if you're only using it occasionally, why not just get a V10?

[FishOnOne]

Design...

[NRALIFR]

You could get a 4.eighty-something on the F450 pickup. If they were ordered to tow the maximum GVW fifth wheel or GN trailer, that forced a 4.8x axle ratio.

The frame rails behind the cab on a cab-and-chassis truck will be straight and flat on top. They are quite different from the F450 pickup frame rails, to accommodate flat beds, utility beds, enclosed box, etc. the only thing a pickup’s frame rails are designed for is a pickup bed.

You can also order a cab-and-chassis truck with Lariat trim, so that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s an F450 pickup.

:):)