Ram 2500 Diesel

[stapler101]

I have a 2018 Ram 2500, diesel, short bed, "standard" rear end.
I am considering a 42 ft 5th wheel trailer with an empty weight of 12K.
Will my truck handle it on cross country trips with hills and mountains?

[BenK]

Ditto jimnlin & grit

Add that all of the published info, manuals, read me first, labels, fine print, footnotes, legends, etc, etc, have been reviewed by corporate lawyers. From every word, phrase, bolted, underlined, punctuation, etc, etc until the lawyers feel the OEM is CYA’d. Even the ‘recommend’ is part of the legalese positioning...if you don’t follow their recommendations, then they can say they won’t cover, as you didn’t follow their recommendations

Our court system has ruled that they know folks don’t read this stuff, or if they do, don’t understand, etc, etc...so they have ruled that the OEMs have mitigated their liability...some what...

There are so many things that are then mandated because of the “idiot and gorilla” syndrome, so the OEMs has to design in idiot proof things. Like the infamous Ford Explore roll over due to OEM recommended tire pressure for ‘ride quality’...that was below the proper design PSI. We now have DOT mandated tire PSI monitoring systems, that is tied to the dash display and computer system

Seat belt warning lights on the dash is another and many, many more

Personally thing the day force transducers will become part of that ‘idiot proof’ system. On the axles or each wheel suspension and the receiver. The component parts are all there and mature enough for the OEMs to start putting them into their products

That goes with the level of automation that is creeping into our TVs...heck exploding into our TVs...

[Grit_dog]

To sum it up, what Jimlin posted is what some of us know, either through knowledge or practical experience. The catch being, if you don’t have either, you may not recognize what these “real world” limits are, or if you’re inadvertently doing something inherently unsafe.
To that end, Mfgs put their conservative ratings on the vehicles to 1. Reduce warranty claims. 2. Boost perceived reliability. And 3. Minimize liability.
If a person chooses not to understand or is not inclined to understand, the mfgs rating stickers are the very safe, conservative default limit.

[Me_Again]

stapler101 wrote:
Color me dumb, but so many of the responses went over my head! Not saying that I don't appreciate everyone, but I guess I am more lost than ever. My concern is not just staying "legal" but staying safe.
I ordered Firestone ride rite air bag suspension boosters today.
Oh, I have 18" wheels
I have changed to another trailer 10,619 dry, 2300 hitch weight.
Is this closer in line with legal and safe?

I spelled it out to you in an earlier post. NO PICKUP will exceed the federal bridge weight laws, enforced at weigh stations. For a single axle with two tires has a max rating of 12K provided the tire ratings add up to 12K, that is two tires rated to 6K x 2 = 12K.

To meet your state vehicle licensing requirements for the truck you need to pay the higher $110 weight fee for 10,001 - 18,000 pounds, as your loaded truck will be over 10K.

Licensing in ones home state is honored by other states you may travel in. Total combination length varies by state and one must comply with each states length rules. 65' is the lowest that I am aware of, others allow 75'.

Dry trailer weights are not the best to go by. It is best to go by the manufactures GVWR for a trailer. Figure the percentage of dry pin weigh with dry trailer weight, and use that percentage to get an idea the pin weight will be close to for a fully loaded trailer. For the first trailer that is 2080/12443 = .167162 so .167162 x 15,500 = 2591 as and estimate of the loaded pin weigh. For the record a trailer with the low on a percentage of pin weight may not be the best towing trailer.

This new trailer choice with a higher dry pin weight may put you closer to the trucks 6500 RGAWR, than the first one. When we bought I Bighorn I called Heartland and ask how accurate the 2435 dry pin weight was. I was told it was quite accurate.

You need to factor in the 5th wheel hitch weight, anything that you plan on carrying in the truck bed as weight that goes on the rear axle. Passengers in the truck have a percentage of their weight on the rear axle.

The 6500 RGAWR is the number that you should carefully watch. Now the 3500 with the same rear differential, brakes, wheels and tires allows 7K. The tires are rated to 3640 each, so the manufactures rating is limited to 7280 max or less. So a LEO bent on finding something wrong could go by the GAWR on the B pillar or the max rating on the tires. So choice the number you feel comfortable with.

[JIMNLIN]

More input from a actual auto engineer on GVWR vs the GAWRs....( copy and paste from another rv website;)

grindstone01
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: FULL TIMERS
Posts: 2,325
Registry
*** I'm a retired auto engineer and Marketing has a big impact on GVWR. As a engineer, it was our job to make sure the frame, brakes and powertrain components were designed well above the GVWR ratings that Marketing wanted, so we would design in a safety factor for each component. You don't really think we would build a truck and then test it to determine what the surprise GVWR number should be!
Axle ratings are also well above the GVWR rating and in commercial vehicles, axle ratings are the pay load determining factor and even they have a big safety factor designed into them.
It would be unusual for a lawyer to accept a overweight case unless it was grossly over the safety factor weight and even then a vehicle manufacture would not share that info because it is not a hard fast number that will break if one more pound is added.
There are many videos of million pound plus loads being moved by trucks across country. It's all about the axles.***

Just stay under your trucks FAWR/RAWR/tire load ratings that way your safe and legal. Oh yeah...and any kind of weight your state requires for registration purposes...if any.

[patperry2766]

stapler101 wrote:
Does "properly registered" with my state (Texas) mean that I registered the trailer as being over 10K? In Texas this is automatic because all titles must show the weight or you must bring them a certified weight ticket.
Or is it simply illegal to tow over 10k with a 2500 truck? If so, I have seen about 1 million illegal trailers!

The GVWR(Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is the weight of the truck, passengers, fuel and pin weight/hitch weight and anything else you carry in the truck, not to exceed 10K lbs. Ram for instance says that your truck can tow up to around 16-17K, provided that the pin/hitch weight stays withing the GVRW of the truck.

The GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the combined weight of the truck AND the trailer and everything you bring with you not to exceed 24,300 lbs.

They are two separate ratings, but aren't mutually exclusive of each other because the weight has to go somewhere. The more in the bed of the truck, the less trailer you can tow per the GVWR of the truck and how the manufacturer rates them.

I think the manufactures de-rate their trucks to under 10K lower registration fees for the end user and to possibly keep a recreational user out of the realm of commercial regulations in some states.

Now, as pointed out from a conversation that I had with another member here, just because the truck is de-rated doesn't make is less capable. From what I have seen with no evidence to the contrary provided, I do believe the only difference between the 2500 & SRW 3500 is the rear suspension, which has been "smoothed" out to handle the day to day driving of it being primarily a people mover.

I personally feel and am comfortable with adding another 500-750 over manufacturers ratings, and if I have to add airbags to deal with the added weight, then I'm fine with that.

The F-150 that I had before had a carlike ride, for which it was designed for. You have to start adding the max trailer tow package and such to get the maximum capabilities of the truck. Just like adding airbags if necessary to get the max capabilities out of the 3/4T truck.

I would be more concerned with the length of the trailer over going over the payload capacity a bit. I think that once you get to a certain length, then you need a DRW truck just for the added stability.

[stapler101]

thanks shinerbock!

[ShinerBock]

FYI, I have a 2014 2500 CTD and tow a 13-14k 5ver from San Antonio are to Rockport a few times a year. I also tow it to Concan and River Road in NB. You will be more than safe pulling that 10k trailer.

[ShinerBock]

stapler101 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
No, you will still not be legal, but you will be safe even without the air bags. That is unless what wandering says is true. In that case, it will fall apart the second you go over 10k GVWR

what would make me not legal?

The 2,300 pin plus occupants and all the gear will likely put you over your truck's 10k GVWR.

However, you can register for a higher GVWR in Texas -or- just roll with it since you are safe. The fine for towing a higher GVWR in Texas is to pay the deference between the weight you register for and whatever you get caught with for all the years you owned your truck. However, you have a better chance of pulling out a nickel in a football stadium filled with pennies than get caught.

The only time I have ever heard of anyone getting pulled over for towing was driving an old beater C-10 literally scrapping the pavement because the rear end was so low. If you look like your rig is safe and can handle the weight(which it will) then your chances are slim to non existent of getting pulled over.

[stapler101]

Does "properly registered" with my state (Texas) mean that I registered the trailer as being over 10K? In Texas this is automatic because all titles must show the weight or you must bring them a certified weight ticket.
Or is it simply illegal to tow over 10k with a 2500 truck? If so, I have seen about 1 million illegal trailers!

[stapler101]

ShinerBock wrote:
No, you will still not be legal, but you will be safe even without the air bags. That is unless what wandering says is true. In that case, it will fall apart the second you go over 10k GVWR

what would make me not legal?

[IdaD]

stapler101 wrote:
Color me dumb, but so many of the responses went over my head! Not saying that I don't appreciate everyone, but I guess I am more lost than ever. My concern is not just staying "legal" but staying safe.
I ordered Firestone ride rite air bag suspension boosters today.
Oh, I have 18" wheels
I have changed to another trailer 10,619 dry, 2300 hitch weight.
Is this closer in line with legal and safe?

Legal just means you are properly registered with your state. Your truck will have no trouble at all with that size fifth wheel.

[ShinerBock]

No, you will still not be legal, but you will be safe even without the air bags. That is unless what wandering says is true. In that case, it will fall apart the second you go over 10k GVWR

[stapler101]

Color me dumb, but so many of the responses went over my head! Not saying that I don't appreciate everyone, but I guess I am more lost than ever. My concern is not just staying "legal" but staying safe.
I ordered Firestone ride rite air bag suspension boosters today.
Oh, I have 18" wheels
I have changed to another trailer 10,619 dry, 2300 hitch weight.
Is this closer in line with legal and safe?

[ShinerBock]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Shiner, I get what you are saying about specialized buyers wanting specialized specs for their purposes. But, if you subscribe to that as a generality, why rate any non commercial truck for over 9900 lbs ever? Why not sell 9900 lb f-450 dually models?
Everybody can save a buck on their recreational plates.

Because people who buy a F450(which Ford de-rated from a class 4 to a class 3 to compete with the Ram 3500) to tow heavy weight on road more often than unloaded. That is not the case of 10k GVWR fleet owners who do not need to tow heavy on the road all the time. They want the truck capable of towing 15-17k, but they don't need it all the time to warrant the added costs and regulations.

In many cases, it is actually overbuilt rather than under built. At least for most newer Ram 2500's I have seen. I can't say the same for the F250 that tends to squat with the slightest of load, however, Ford's marketing strategy is a little different Ram's 2500 in regards to fleet customers. Ford seems to want their fleet customers to have an F350 de-rated to 10k, while Ram seems to offer an overly capable 2500 for these customers.