"Who has taken a full-height TC down some nasty roads, or Jeep roads where the truck leans and is at the limits of tipping the camper off or something of the sort?"
According to your join date you've been on here as long as I have.
In my time i've "taken a full-height TC down some nasty roads" as you call them. The real question is, "how did i get there"; what was the narrow path; and what preparation and decisions were made along the way?
My experience was with 13, 4WD's from grocery getters to extreme rock crawler, and covering about 1.4 million miles. Here are rigs 1, 2, and 3: still 10 more to come.
The best, most complete way to come to the XTC (extreme truck camper) school is to have been a hard core, rock crawling, gnarly path, four wheel driver at one time as excellent preparation. You can get there by other means, but when you have experience welding up new driveshafts on the trail, patching broken frames; and re attaching leaf spring hangers, replacing leaf springs on the trail, you definitely obtain much of the education you need. I have stories. One time out with my home jeeper group, The (4) Beater Boys, we were in some big rocks at the Hammers, when one of the two built CJ-8's' starter gave up right in the middle of a "V" shaped rock outcropping and with the rocker panels firmly ensconced in V stone. It was impossible to winch him up and out of the obstacle. No manner of 60 inch high lifts; 2 ton come alongs; 12 ton hydraulic jacks made much difference. Those were in the mix, but he needed to get out on his own power. My CJ-8's battery had given up a few hours before so I was not wanting to turn off my engine off for any reason. The starter less CJ-8 needed MY starter to get off the obstacle. So,, what to do? I pushed my idle up a few pops and we took my starter off the rig while it was running, quickly attaching it to the other CJ-8. Everyone had full Detroit or ARB locking diffs on both ends. The final drive in low/low and the 2 that had 2 transfer cases: low/low/low were: mine @ 130:1; 142:1; 274:1; and the winner: 335:1 with 2 t. cases. Everyone had a winch and had slow rolled their rigs from 6-19 times, over time. It was a long day, and by default was full of experiences that tested and added to your ability to keep going. You face the same problems, to a lesser degree, when you attempt to off-road a 10K pound, 2650 pound loaded camper, 20 foot long,10 foot high, 86 inch wide rig where it barely fits, and you are living on the edge of sanity, which is now a lot closer than it was with a small 4bye. This final point is movable as to your experience. As far as tipping? All of the heavy stuff in my rig is as low as we can make it. Plus the 1000 pound Cummins, 360 pound transmission, 225 pound winch and bumper with heavy axles keep us upright, kind of like the low weight in a sailboat. So that big, high box full of air, which looks as if you are going to capsize on a 15 degree angle is far from the tipping over stage:
My brother John (JR on the Pirate Page) and I revel in getting as close the edge as we can. It's kind of a wierd high; a game. So the preparation for XTC-ing, as I call it, began a long time ago with a lot of trial and error with builds and technique.
I purchased the 1998 Lance in 2001 having been used 3 times for $6500. The whole transaction took place in one afternoon-cash. Serendipitously, it was the lightest (1842 pounds, wet), least wide (86 inches), least tall (with a 6 foot 4 inch ceiling), full featured, wood framed, short bed, hard side camper that Lance produced. The guy I bought it from used it on his Dodge 1500 with air bags with no complaints. I had just bought the short bed, extended cab 4X4 Dodge 2500 to flat tow my 4bye junk to the trailhead, so the Lance was a shoe in.
As time passed we started to go down the, "roads of no return" finding ways to conquer the terra not-so-firma, taking a new look at the suspension, ride height, traction devices, and tie down system for the camper itself. Ride height without the Lance on the back:
This is a narrow band of goodness. Too tall and it's too tall. Not enough ground clearance; approach angle, break over angle, or departure angle and it's not enough. It's always a trade off. You need enough; but not too much. You job is to find the line, the cross hairs of the best solution. This is usually with experience. To my bullet proof drive train I added a 3 inch lift; super single steel rear wheels and 35 inch tires; upgrading to Tru Trac, torque biasing, all gear driven limited slips (also called Thorsen diffs), front and rear to go with my new homemade "super 60" front diff using mostly Dana 70 parts with Dana 70 locking hubs. After some bad experience combining a TC with air bags, I added 2 leaves to my existing 1 thicker leaf in my upper overload pack that came with the camper package from the factory at the time. This not being enough, I added 2 leaves to the main pack giving me 8 leaves in the rear spring packs. This has worked out well, but would have never come to pass without my doing a dozen springs over axle upgrades to various jeeps in the past. You develop a feel for how many and what rate the springs need to be and are all purpose built.
I have a short bed truck, which was expedient when I worked downtown L.A. at the Music Center and needed something with a short w.b. to corkscrew down into the subterranean parking structure. Little did I know that a short bed truck is ideal for snaking around trails made by short, narrow jeeps.
As to the wood frame camper: there are plusses and minuses. Wood does not 'sweat' or transmit cold like aluminum. Wood is not as strong nor lasting as is aluminum. However, I've got what I've got and this may be my one and only truck camper. Maybe. The only time you need to worry about pulling your camper apart is when you twist up the axles on undulating surfaces. This transmits a twisting torque to the frame of the truck and in extreme cases will actually deform and bend your truck bed. IF....the tie downs are too tight, the TC will follow this twisting and will eventually pull your camper apart. Older Fords are the worst candidates for twisting as a lot of twisting is built in at the factory. I also use Lance centering brackets which keep the tie downs from a too tight position when the box shifts from side to side or rearward. These keep the box in check at the bottom. Many homemade centering brackets made by folks on this site are much better that the factory Lance's i have. Another secret is to off-road with no jacks: narrower; loose 75 pounds; nothing to drag over rocky terrain: better visibility with side mirrors. I never take the jacks anyway and leave them at home.
I've developed a technique of keeping a close eye on the undulation and tightening or loosening the tension on the tie downs as needed, PRN. Has my camper been pulled apart with all this crazy business? Not yet, and shows no signs.
I've had to replace some dry rot sticks on the TC; replaced the converter with the latest and greatest; keep the caulking current; and add a lot of insulation; added 200watts of solar and this was basically upkeep. This year, the plunger attached to the starting scratcher for the 3-way fridge stopped coming back up, so my RV guru had a look at it and said the fridge needs to be taken out to replace the parts. That's it! I can still light the fridge from the outside by removing the vent, so that's the way we will make it work until it's salvage. All the rest of the appliances work fine.
For the past decade, the camper has lived on the truck, so it is well ensconced like an old shoe. I've made a lot of mis calculations with 4WD's in the past and am always happy to change course and make it work. My time with the TC is waning so it's time for some of you younger off roaders to take on the XTC mantle.
jefe
According to your join date you've been on here as long as I have.
In my time i've "taken a full-height TC down some nasty roads" as you call them. The real question is, "how did i get there"; what was the narrow path; and what preparation and decisions were made along the way?
My experience was with 13, 4WD's from grocery getters to extreme rock crawler, and covering about 1.4 million miles. Here are rigs 1, 2, and 3: still 10 more to come.
The best, most complete way to come to the XTC (extreme truck camper) school is to have been a hard core, rock crawling, gnarly path, four wheel driver at one time as excellent preparation. You can get there by other means, but when you have experience welding up new driveshafts on the trail, patching broken frames; and re attaching leaf spring hangers, replacing leaf springs on the trail, you definitely obtain much of the education you need. I have stories. One time out with my home jeeper group, The (4) Beater Boys, we were in some big rocks at the Hammers, when one of the two built CJ-8's' starter gave up right in the middle of a "V" shaped rock outcropping and with the rocker panels firmly ensconced in V stone. It was impossible to winch him up and out of the obstacle. No manner of 60 inch high lifts; 2 ton come alongs; 12 ton hydraulic jacks made much difference. Those were in the mix, but he needed to get out on his own power. My CJ-8's battery had given up a few hours before so I was not wanting to turn off my engine off for any reason. The starter less CJ-8 needed MY starter to get off the obstacle. So,, what to do? I pushed my idle up a few pops and we took my starter off the rig while it was running, quickly attaching it to the other CJ-8. Everyone had full Detroit or ARB locking diffs on both ends. The final drive in low/low and the 2 that had 2 transfer cases: low/low/low were: mine @ 130:1; 142:1; 274:1; and the winner: 335:1 with 2 t. cases. Everyone had a winch and had slow rolled their rigs from 6-19 times, over time. It was a long day, and by default was full of experiences that tested and added to your ability to keep going. You face the same problems, to a lesser degree, when you attempt to off-road a 10K pound, 2650 pound loaded camper, 20 foot long,10 foot high, 86 inch wide rig where it barely fits, and you are living on the edge of sanity, which is now a lot closer than it was with a small 4bye. This final point is movable as to your experience. As far as tipping? All of the heavy stuff in my rig is as low as we can make it. Plus the 1000 pound Cummins, 360 pound transmission, 225 pound winch and bumper with heavy axles keep us upright, kind of like the low weight in a sailboat. So that big, high box full of air, which looks as if you are going to capsize on a 15 degree angle is far from the tipping over stage:
My brother John (JR on the Pirate Page) and I revel in getting as close the edge as we can. It's kind of a wierd high; a game. So the preparation for XTC-ing, as I call it, began a long time ago with a lot of trial and error with builds and technique.
I purchased the 1998 Lance in 2001 having been used 3 times for $6500. The whole transaction took place in one afternoon-cash. Serendipitously, it was the lightest (1842 pounds, wet), least wide (86 inches), least tall (with a 6 foot 4 inch ceiling), full featured, wood framed, short bed, hard side camper that Lance produced. The guy I bought it from used it on his Dodge 1500 with air bags with no complaints. I had just bought the short bed, extended cab 4X4 Dodge 2500 to flat tow my 4bye junk to the trailhead, so the Lance was a shoe in.
As time passed we started to go down the, "roads of no return" finding ways to conquer the terra not-so-firma, taking a new look at the suspension, ride height, traction devices, and tie down system for the camper itself. Ride height without the Lance on the back:
This is a narrow band of goodness. Too tall and it's too tall. Not enough ground clearance; approach angle, break over angle, or departure angle and it's not enough. It's always a trade off. You need enough; but not too much. You job is to find the line, the cross hairs of the best solution. This is usually with experience. To my bullet proof drive train I added a 3 inch lift; super single steel rear wheels and 35 inch tires; upgrading to Tru Trac, torque biasing, all gear driven limited slips (also called Thorsen diffs), front and rear to go with my new homemade "super 60" front diff using mostly Dana 70 parts with Dana 70 locking hubs. After some bad experience combining a TC with air bags, I added 2 leaves to my existing 1 thicker leaf in my upper overload pack that came with the camper package from the factory at the time. This not being enough, I added 2 leaves to the main pack giving me 8 leaves in the rear spring packs. This has worked out well, but would have never come to pass without my doing a dozen springs over axle upgrades to various jeeps in the past. You develop a feel for how many and what rate the springs need to be and are all purpose built.
I have a short bed truck, which was expedient when I worked downtown L.A. at the Music Center and needed something with a short w.b. to corkscrew down into the subterranean parking structure. Little did I know that a short bed truck is ideal for snaking around trails made by short, narrow jeeps.
As to the wood frame camper: there are plusses and minuses. Wood does not 'sweat' or transmit cold like aluminum. Wood is not as strong nor lasting as is aluminum. However, I've got what I've got and this may be my one and only truck camper. Maybe. The only time you need to worry about pulling your camper apart is when you twist up the axles on undulating surfaces. This transmits a twisting torque to the frame of the truck and in extreme cases will actually deform and bend your truck bed. IF....the tie downs are too tight, the TC will follow this twisting and will eventually pull your camper apart. Older Fords are the worst candidates for twisting as a lot of twisting is built in at the factory. I also use Lance centering brackets which keep the tie downs from a too tight position when the box shifts from side to side or rearward. These keep the box in check at the bottom. Many homemade centering brackets made by folks on this site are much better that the factory Lance's i have. Another secret is to off-road with no jacks: narrower; loose 75 pounds; nothing to drag over rocky terrain: better visibility with side mirrors. I never take the jacks anyway and leave them at home.
I've developed a technique of keeping a close eye on the undulation and tightening or loosening the tension on the tie downs as needed, PRN. Has my camper been pulled apart with all this crazy business? Not yet, and shows no signs.
I've had to replace some dry rot sticks on the TC; replaced the converter with the latest and greatest; keep the caulking current; and add a lot of insulation; added 200watts of solar and this was basically upkeep. This year, the plunger attached to the starting scratcher for the 3-way fridge stopped coming back up, so my RV guru had a look at it and said the fridge needs to be taken out to replace the parts. That's it! I can still light the fridge from the outside by removing the vent, so that's the way we will make it work until it's salvage. All the rest of the appliances work fine.
For the past decade, the camper has lived on the truck, so it is well ensconced like an old shoe. I've made a lot of mis calculations with 4WD's in the past and am always happy to change course and make it work. My time with the TC is waning so it's time for some of you younger off roaders to take on the XTC mantle.
jefe
I never intend to take my 12' camper for off-roading, but I was taking it on forest roads, where truck gauge reported 18% grade. My biggest dilemma was camper ties holding it from sliding back, but it hold just fine.
Don't expect anybody to tell you side roll specification. I did some research years ago when I bought sophisticated suv, who was rated for taking 100% grades, but no word about side tilt.
It is liability issue as static tilt and dynamic tilt are 2 different things and nobody will give you a number.
But fact is, that as you noticed, TC being tall unit, is bottom heavy and even 3000 lb of camper is not much comparing to 8000 lb of truck.
Meaning your COG will be just few inches above truck bed floor.
Make sure to reinforce cabinet locks
Don't expect anybody to tell you side roll specification. I did some research years ago when I bought sophisticated suv, who was rated for taking 100% grades, but no word about side tilt.
It is liability issue as static tilt and dynamic tilt are 2 different things and nobody will give you a number.
But fact is, that as you noticed, TC being tall unit, is bottom heavy and even 3000 lb of camper is not much comparing to 8000 lb of truck.
Meaning your COG will be just few inches above truck bed floor.
Make sure to reinforce cabinet locks
