US might have been wrong about Ethanol

[FishOnOne]

Study show US could have been wrong with implementing ethanol to reduce emissions and could have had opposite effects.

Link

[monkey44]

Jerry Quote: Most cases, folks that require bailouts, will learn to expect it, and always need it.

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Haven't seen too many perfect sentences, but this one comes as close to perfect as anyone can get. 🙂

[MFL]

The ethanol industry would never have, and still won't survive very long without taxpayer subsidized support. It cost more to produce than regular gasoline. It was marketed as a midgrade fuel, at a higher price initially and was failing. Human nature to buy cheapest fuel at the pump.

Mentioned above...crop yields not guaranteed, so yes, a bad year is likely. The answer is, like many businesses, or the lowly wage earner, you save when profits are high, or invest them in a good year. Everyone needs to plan ahead, whether it is year by year, or long term. Most cases, folks that require bailouts, will learn to expect it, and always need it.

Jerry

[mkirsch]

Geo*Boy wrote:

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

Nobody pays a farmer or his huge investment, to just sit there while their land lays fallow.

Crops yields are also not guaranteed. You never know what the weather is going to do. Get a wet year or a dry year or a cold year or a hot year and yields are severely diminished. You plant every inch you can to hedge against a bad year.

[Cummins12V98]

fla-gypsy wrote:
As with most “save the planet” ideas, this one was junk science as well

I thought that all the restrictions that were placed on auto and trucks to make their exhaust clean was going to be be all. Now that they accomplished that they have to have another hot topic for the extremists to rally around.

If we truly wanted clean air we would stop importing so much from China that is one of the worlds worst polluters.

YES Ethanol is bad in many ways. The fuel burned to produce it does not pencil out.

[fla-gypsy]

As with most “save the planet” ideas, this one was junk science as well

[rlw999]

Geo*Boy wrote:

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

Nobody pays a farmer or his huge investment, to just sit there while their land lays fallow.

That's why ethanol for fuel is essentially a farm subsidy -- ethanol requirements and tax breaks for ethanol production creates demand for corn that wouldn't otherwise be there.

[Geo_Boy]

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

Nobody pays a farmer or his huge investment, to just sit there while their land lays fallow.

[Groover]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. 😉

One subsidy for another I guess.

EVs are mostly sold out right now without subsidies. The price of the Model Y has gone up $11,000 in the past year while the build cost has gone down so this is due solely to market demand vs supply. Even with the price increase the current lead time is 5 months. Why anybody thinks that EVs need subsidies is beyond me. Elon Mush has come out against subsidies too. I would love to get a rebate on mine but if I did I would chuckle at the stupidity of our government while I was cashing the check.

Two new factories are ramping up production of the Model Y right now and I have little doubt that when Tesla does catch up with demand they will reduce the price to spur demand rather than slow production.

Also, Tesla is rapidly expanding their charger base without government subsidies.

[Cummins12V98]

time2roll wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. 😉

One subsidy for another I guess.

I am opposed to any new EV subsidy. Tesla and GM are already out. Others will follow soon if they actually produce any.

Two of the five best selling cars in CA are Tesla without federal subsidy in 2021. Will be more Tesla production very soon out of TX.

I am also talking so called "Green Energy".

[time2roll]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. 😉

One subsidy for another I guess.

I am opposed to any new EV subsidy. Tesla and GM are already out. Others will follow soon if they actually produce any.

Two of the five best selling cars in CA are Tesla without federal subsidy in 2021. Will be more Tesla production very soon out of TX.

[Cummins12V98]

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. 😉

One subsidy for another I guess.

[mkirsch]

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

There's plenty wrong with it.

You going to pay the mortgage, taxes, insurance on the land when it's laying fallow? Fallow land does not bring income, but the money keeps going out.

Not to mention you have to run over it once or twice a year with the brush mower to keep it from growing up into a forest.

[Groover]

"Same with Farmers. Get up before dawn, work all day. Drive a $50,000 tractor, and of course, the corn then grows itself and farmers can give it away."

You haven't priced farm equipment lately. My "compact utility" tractor costs $50,000 and that doesn't include any implements. I have about $25,000 in implements and still have a long wish list. A tractor is only as good as the tools that it has to work with.

Real farm tractors start around $70,000 and can go way past $200,000. Combines even more. I see a used 3 year old Deere combine for $350,000 without implements. Figure another $200k for those. Those tools are just the basics. Lots of ancillary equipment needed beyond those.

Personally, I would love to see a lot of corn fields revert back to nature. That would probably be more beneficial for the environment than the ethanol ever has been.

[Fisherman]

Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.