Will the Diesel be Dead?

[wilber1]

This engine will be available in the 2019 Altima.

http wrote:
2019 Altima

Nissan Variable Compression Engine

[wilber1]

Both Car and Driver and SAE International say the engine's operation is seamless and compression changes are not noticeable. Anti climactic according to C&D. Time will tell if it can deliver on improved fuel efficiency and durability.

C&D

One upside is the change in geometry makes the use of balance shafts unnecessary.

SAE

[Fordlover]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ScottG wrote:
What does this have to do with diesel? In no way does it replace them nor does it perform like diesel.
They tried the variable compression idea on Infinity first. Scotty Kilmer says it's a terrible enjoy and a "Don't buy". Looking at how it's engineered, I agree.

Rube Goldberg comes to mind! This thing is a mess! It reminds me of the 10 head bolts/ cylinder head thing...………...but 10x's worse! And almost as bad as mounting a nuclear reactor in a car. :R

Hey, that totally works. I saw it in that documentary film a few years back, think it was called back to the future or something.;)

[ShinerBock]

FishOnOne wrote:

Thanks Shiner....

And yes I could access your link

Good. I never know with that site. Some things are subscription only(which I have through work) and some pages are not.

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:
Fish, below is the a link to the info about phase 2 which will be for model years 2021-2027. Phase 2 is mainly to decrease CO2 and increase fuel economy in 3/4 ton and up vehicles. Since diesels emit less CO2 than gasoline engines, the CO2 requirements will probably effect the gas engines more than the diesel engines.

So as far in regards in lowering NOx and PM, it looks like there is not more regulations on the horizon. However, we should see HD truck makers start to introduce tech or improve tech in their 3/4 and up vehicles to increase their fuel economy similar to class 1-2a vehicles before.

I am not sure if you can view the link without a subscription.

Heavy-Duty Pickup Trucks and Vans
The commercial pickup and van category includes those vehicles of GVWR from 8,501 to 14,000 lbs that are not regulated under the light-duty GHG/CAFE vehicle regulations. These vehicles must meet corporate average CO2 and fuel economy standards, in an approach similar to that taken for light-duty vehicles, but with different standards for gasoline and diesel vehicles.

The EPA has established CO2 standards in the form of a set of target standard curves, based on a “work factor” that combines a vehicle’s payload, towing capabilities, and whether or not it has 4-wheel drive. The standards phase in with increasing stringency in each model year. The EPA standards include a separate standard to control air conditioning system leakage. NHTSA has set corporate average standards for fuel consumption that are equivalent to EPA‘s standards (though not including the EPA’s air conditioning leakage standard).

At Phase 1, manufacturers were provided with two alternative phase-in approaches. One alternative phased in the final standards at 15-20-40-60-100 percent in model years 2014-2015-2016-2017-2018. The other phased in the final standards at 15-20-67-67-67-100 percent in model years 2014-2015-2016-2017-2018-2019. Phase 2 standards are phased in over model years 2021-2027.

United States: Heavy-Duty Vehicles: GHG Emissions & Fuel Economy

Thanks Shiner....

And yes I could access your link

[ShinerBock]

Fish, below is the a link to the info about phase 2 which will be for model years 2021-2027. Phase 2 is mainly to decrease CO2 and increase fuel economy in 3/4 ton and up vehicles. Since diesels emit less CO2 than gasoline engines, the CO2 requirements will probably effect the gas engines more than the diesel engines.

So in regards in lowering NOx and PM, it looks like there is no more regulations on the horizon. However, we should see HD truck makers start to introduce tech or improve tech in their 3/4 and up vehicles to increase their fuel economy similar to class 1-2a vehicles before.

I am not sure if you can view the link without a subscription.

Heavy-Duty Pickup Trucks and Vans
The commercial pickup and van category includes those vehicles of GVWR from 8,501 to 14,000 lbs that are not regulated under the light-duty GHG/CAFE vehicle regulations. These vehicles must meet corporate average CO2 and fuel economy standards, in an approach similar to that taken for light-duty vehicles, but with different standards for gasoline and diesel vehicles.

The EPA has established CO2 standards in the form of a set of target standard curves, based on a “work factor” that combines a vehicle’s payload, towing capabilities, and whether or not it has 4-wheel drive. The standards phase in with increasing stringency in each model year. The EPA standards include a separate standard to control air conditioning system leakage. NHTSA has set corporate average standards for fuel consumption that are equivalent to EPA‘s standards (though not including the EPA’s air conditioning leakage standard).

At Phase 1, manufacturers were provided with two alternative phase-in approaches. One alternative phased in the final standards at 15-20-40-60-100 percent in model years 2014-2015-2016-2017-2018. The other phased in the final standards at 15-20-67-67-67-100 percent in model years 2014-2015-2016-2017-2018-2019. Phase 2 standards are phased in over model years 2021-2027.

United States: Heavy-Duty Vehicles: GHG Emissions & Fuel Economy

[ShinerBock]

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Even now there are turbocharged gasoline engines making nearly as much toque per volume of engine displacement as diesel engines make. Gasoline has the potential for huge torque and way more power than diesel.

What’s missing is the fuel economy. Variable compression ratio goes some way to address that.

Another thing that is missing is emissions. Past particulate matter emission regulations have only been for diesels dropping it from 0.10 pre-2007 to .01 in after 2007. Gasoline engines were omitted from all PM requirements. Now many gasoline direct injected engines emit more PM than modern diesels and some even emit more than pre-DPF diesels. How long will that last?

Shiner,
Isn't there another diesel emission standard coming out relatively soon?

Not that I am aware of. Stage 1 for diesels was tighter emissions and stage 2 was for higher fuel economy which is why 3/4 ton and up trucks will soon have an mpg on their window sticker.

[RobertRyan]

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Even now there are turbocharged gasoline engines making nearly as much toque per volume of engine displacement as diesel engines make. Gasoline has the potential for huge torque and way more power than diesel.

What’s missing is the fuel economy. Variable compression ratio goes some way to address that.

Another thing that is missing is emissions. Past particulate matter emission regulations have only been for diesels dropping it from 0.10 pre-2007 to .01 in after 2007. Gasoline engines were omitted from all PM requirements. Now many gasoline direct injected engines emit more PM than modern diesels and some even emit more than pre-DPF diesels. How long will that last?

Shiner,
Isn't there another diesel emission standard coming out relatively soon?

Petrol engines are rapidly becoming the new bad kid on the block.. I think particulate traps have to become universal. As far as their CO2 that needs to be addressed urgently as well

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Even now there are turbocharged gasoline engines making nearly as much toque per volume of engine displacement as diesel engines make. Gasoline has the potential for huge torque and way more power than diesel.

What’s missing is the fuel economy. Variable compression ratio goes some way to address that.

Another thing that is missing is emissions. Past particulate matter emission regulations have only been for diesels dropping it from 0.10 pre-2007 to .01 in after 2007. Gasoline engines were omitted from all PM requirements. Now many gasoline direct injected engines emit more PM than modern diesels and some even emit more than pre-DPF diesels. How long will that last?

Shiner,
Isn't there another diesel emission standard coming out relatively soon?

[wilber1]

F1 engines have been using pneumatics instead of metal valve springs for over 15 years. They still use cams to open the valves though.

[campigloo]

I just watched the video on the variable compression. Cool.
Did anyone watch the next video? It touted a camless engine. Valves were operated using compressed air. They could be programmed to do all sorts of things. One of them was running either gasoline or diesel. Not at the same time, but off of seperate fuel tanks. Future technology is fascinating.

[4x4ord]

time2roll wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Gasoline has the potential for huge torque and way more power than diesel.

Diesel will always have more BTU per gallon. The only trick is extracting the power efficiently with low emissions.

My bet is still on electric although battery density or fuel cell efficiency still needs improvement to make it work best in long haul situations.

Diesel contains about 13% more energy per volume than does gasoline but it is about 12% heavier so the energy per unit weight of the two fuels is very similar. I guess what really matters is the energy per $ at the pump and that seems to vary an awful lot. The higher efficiency of diesel can also be attributed to the much higher compression ratio. I think it is going to be interesting to see what future engines look like. I agree that electric will be playing a more significant role.

[wilber1]

Looking at the thing it motion, it doesn't really look that complicated.

QX50

[time2roll]

4x4ord wrote:
Gasoline has the potential for huge torque and way more power than diesel.

Diesel will always have more BTU per gallon. The only trick is extracting the power efficiently with low emissions.

My bet is still on electric although battery density or fuel cell efficiency still needs improvement to make it work best in long haul situations.

[fx2tom]

we leased a new 2019 Infiniti QX50 about 10 days ago. Love the car and the engine. The duty cycle remains to be seen and we leased it because I wasn't betting on it long term.