Truck Camper and TT Combo

[mrgrim007]

Not sure where to ask this, so I'm starting here. Thanks in advanced.

We have a 2014 RAM 3500 Cummins SRW with about 4,300lb payload. Our current travel trailer is 4,300 empty, 6,000lb GVWR.

We'd like to get a single-slide camper and tow our TT with the camper in the bed.

The camper we're looking is a Palomino HS-1914 Backpack. It weights 3493 empty. "Wet" weight is about 4,700, I think.

While towing with the camper in the bed, we'd leave the camper as empty as possible and put most of our stuff in the TT.

Is this a crazy idea? I know we'd need to get extension bars of some sort to tow the trailer. Weight-wise, we'd be cutting it pretty close I think.

Thoughts? Thanks.

[JimK-NY]

I did not start with a 4700 pound camper. Mine started with an empty weight of half that amount and it is still plenty for a 1 ton SRW truck.

If you are going to push the weight a bit, you will need to consider 19.5 wheels and tires, suspension upgrades such as shocks, sway bar, extra spring capacity and perhaps airbags to level the truck.

4700 pound wet weight is not a bit overweight. It is way, way over the capacity of a 1 ton SRW truck. Even if you could make all the upgrades needed to handle the weight, you would not have the braking capacity. It would take you a country miles to slow and stop the rig.

[mrgrim007]

JimK-NY wrote:

mrgrim007 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:

mrgrim007 wrote:


So....get bigger wheels and tires?

When I was in this shoes, I read forum replies.
Several members reported that they spend couple thousands dollars on 19.5 wheels another thousand for air bags an compressor, another thousand for this and another thousand for that, finally coming to the point that it is hard to beat dually.
I used other's experience and come to the same conclusion without dropping thousand$$$$ into project.

I agree. I'm pretty much past the TC/TT combo. But I think we're still gonna see if we can make a TC work with our current truck. The one we're looking at says 4,700 wet, which I think we can make work...but we'll be looking at other, lighter options as well. Thanks for you help.

I don't get it. Did you skip grade school math or you just put wishful thinking ahead of the facts?

Your tires, wheels and the rated cargo capacity of the truck put you at about a total rear axle weight of 7200 to 7500. You have 3320 on the rear axle with an empty truck, leaving you 4300. You should not consider a camper with a wet weight that is already 400 over. You will also need to consider any accessories, bedding, clothing, food, kitchen items, etc, etc. Plan on at least 1000 for these items. Also look at the manufacturer's actual specs. That quoted wet weight may not include common accessories such as awnings, solar, microwave, oven, etc.

Yes you need to be looking at TCs that are lighter, much, much lighter. As an example, my Northstar Igloo started with a dry weight of 2300. A second battery, 2 solar panels, a generator, water/propane, awnings, tiedowns, mattress upgrade bumped the weight to about 3500. I travel pretty light but food, kitchen gear, clothing, a few tools and some personal items easily added another 1000. With a 3500 Ram, I am close to max'd out on tires and wheels. I had to add Timbrens and am considering adding Supersprings and upgrading to 19.5 wheels and tires. Remember almost every pound of a camper is going to end up on the rear axle.

Do you have a DRW?

What I've learned from this post is that the limiting factors on my truck are the wheels and tires. The axle is rated at 9,750 lbs. Upgrading to 19.5 wheels/tires would help a lot with safely carrying a heavy TC. This is something that hotshot drivers do to carry heavier loads.

But, I'm going to keep looking for DRW or a much lighter camper. I don't want to sink money into this and end up getting a DRW anyway.

Sounds like you should consider doing the same.

[JimK-NY]

mrgrim007 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:

mrgrim007 wrote:


So....get bigger wheels and tires?

When I was in this shoes, I read forum replies.
Several members reported that they spend couple thousands dollars on 19.5 wheels another thousand for air bags an compressor, another thousand for this and another thousand for that, finally coming to the point that it is hard to beat dually.
I used other's experience and come to the same conclusion without dropping thousand$$$$ into project.

I agree. I'm pretty much past the TC/TT combo. But I think we're still gonna see if we can make a TC work with our current truck. The one we're looking at says 4,700 wet, which I think we can make work...but we'll be looking at other, lighter options as well. Thanks for you help.

I don't get it. Did you skip grade school math or you just put wishful thinking ahead of the facts?

Your tires, wheels and the rated cargo capacity of the truck put you at about a total rear axle weight of 7200 to 7500. You have 3320 on the rear axle with an empty truck, leaving you 4300. You should not consider a camper with a wet weight that is already 400 over. You will also need to consider any accessories, bedding, clothing, food, kitchen items, etc, etc. Plan on at least 1000 for these items. Also look at the manufacturer's actual specs. That quoted wet weight may not include common accessories such as awnings, solar, microwave, oven, etc.

Yes you need to be looking at TCs that are lighter, much, much lighter. As an example, my Northstar Igloo started with a dry weight of 2300. A second battery, 2 solar panels, a generator, water/propane, awnings, tiedowns, mattress upgrade bumped the weight to about 3500. I travel pretty light but food, kitchen gear, clothing, a few tools and some personal items easily added another 1000. With a 3500 Ram, I am close to max'd out on tires and wheels. I had to add Timbrens and am considering adding Supersprings and upgrading to 19.5 wheels and tires. Remember almost every pound of a camper is going to end up on the rear axle.

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
How do I figure out what the axle rating is?

The 2500/3500 SRW Dodge/Ram from '03 on up use the AAM 11.5" rear axle which AAM rates it around 10800 ? lbs capacity.

The 3500 DRW used the same 11.5" axle till sometime in the 20teens when Ram upgraded to the AAM 11.8" rear axle.

Dodge/Ram derates it by using lower rated tires...wheels and rear spring packs. So you have around 3800 lbs of reserve capacity before exceeding AAM ratings.

If I was dead set on using a TC that size on a 3500 SRW, I would load it all up then hit the scale to see how much help the trucks OEM tires...wheels...and rear suspension needs to be safe.

[jimh406]

I don’t think anyone bought air compressors and air bags for load, but the point remains that 19.5 wheels/tires are about the same cost as the difference between a DRW and a SRW. If you are someone who is going to change tires because you always do, then I’d also consider the 18s that have a 4080 lb capacity if your rims are 18s, and a DRW simply won’t work for you.

In my case, I had a SRW and Supercab because a DRW with Crew Cab wouldn’t work for me as a daily driver. I added 19.5s simply for more room for error, but I still carried the bare minimum when I had my SRW. If you can get by with a DRW, it’s simply easier to make it work and not have to worry as much about what you carry and/or be able to choose a larger TC.

[mrgrim007]

Kayteg1 wrote:

mrgrim007 wrote:


So....get bigger wheels and tires?

When I was in this shoes, I read forum replies.
Several members reported that they spend couple thousands dollars on 19.5 wheels another thousand for air bags an compressor, another thousand for this and another thousand for that, finally coming to the point that it is hard to beat dually.
I used other's experience and come to the same conclusion without dropping thousand$$$$ into project.

I agree. I'm pretty much past the TC/TT combo. But I think we're still gonna see if we can make a TC work with our current truck. The one we're looking at says 4,700 wet, which I think we can make work...but we'll be looking at other, lighter options as well. Thanks for you help.

[Kayteg1]

mrgrim007 wrote:


So....get bigger wheels and tires?

When I was in this shoes, I read forum replies.
Several members reported that they spend couple thousands dollars on 19.5 wheels another thousand for air bags an compressor, another thousand for this and another thousand for that, finally coming to the point that it is hard to beat dually.
I used other's experience and come to the same conclusion without dropping thousand$$$$ into project.

[mrgrim007]

JimK-NY wrote:

zcookiemonstar wrote:

JimK-NY wrote:
...... minus 200 bed mat, tiedown brackets and fastguns. .....

200 lbs for a bed mat?

200# for bed mat, tiedown brackets and fastguns. I bet the weight would actually be considerably higher. Those horse mats are really heavy and Torqlift tiedown brackets are massive, especially the front brackets that fit my Ram 3500.

In any case it really makes no difference. The OP's plans would overload the truck by at least 2000# and that overload is mainly the excess that the wheels and tires are not rated to carry.

So....get bigger wheels and tires?

[JimK-NY]

zcookiemonstar wrote:

JimK-NY wrote:
...... minus 200 bed mat, tiedown brackets and fastguns. .....

200 lbs for a bed mat?

200# for bed mat, tiedown brackets and fastguns. I bet the weight would actually be considerably higher. Those horse mats are really heavy and Torqlift tiedown brackets are massive, especially the front brackets that fit my Ram 3500.

In any case it really makes no difference. The OP's plans would overload the truck by at least 2000# and that overload is mainly the excess that the wheels and tires are not rated to carry.

[mrgrim007]

mrgrim007 wrote:

Buzzcut1 wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Do you think the TC alone (not towing a TT) is still too much for my truck? Assuming we try to keep the tanks empty and pack light.

What Kayteg1 has some good advice.
Simple numbers tells you 3320 lb rear axle minus 7000 rawr leaves 3680 lbs.

I wouldn't recommend driving 24/7 over axle/tire load ratings. Now if your just hauling 4k lbs of green wood or a load of RR ties from Lowes or a bed load of gravel for short run then you won't hurt the truck any.

That 7000 RAWR is based on the tires and wheels not what the axle is actually rated at (over 9000 by the MFG). Keep that in mind. Everyone will go off on the door tag. but all the DOT looks at is are you over the tire/wheel ratings and have you paid the proper weight fee. If you are close to the tire and wheel rating when you get the TC upgrade the tires and wheels to something like 19.5 vision wheels and 19.5 tires in a 245/70R19.5 those have load ratings of 4500 pounds.

Someone else mentioned that as well - upgrading the wheels/tires. That's definitely something I'm going to look at! Thanks! Gives me some hope for at least hauling the TC alone, haha.

How do I figure out what the axle rating is?

[mrgrim007]

zcookiemonstar wrote:

mrgrim007 wrote:
Went to the scales today. My steer axle is 5,240 lbs and my drive axle is 3,320 lbs. Full tank of diesel. Gross 8,560 lbs. Definitely a good thing I went and now I understand the numbers a bit better.

Now I just need to find someone to trade their DRW for my SRW...

That seems heavy to me. My 03 dually weighs less and I am heavy myself.

My numbers are off. I had about 80 lbs in the bed.

[mrgrim007]

Buzzcut1 wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Do you think the TC alone (not towing a TT) is still too much for my truck? Assuming we try to keep the tanks empty and pack light.

What Kayteg1 has some good advice.
Simple numbers tells you 3320 lb rear axle minus 7000 rawr leaves 3680 lbs.

I wouldn't recommend driving 24/7 over axle/tire load ratings. Now if your just hauling 4k lbs of green wood or a load of RR ties from Lowes or a bed load of gravel for short run then you won't hurt the truck any.

That 7000 RAWR is based on the tires and wheels not what the axle is actually rated at (over 9000 by the MFG). Keep that in mind. Everyone will go off on the door tag. but all the DOT looks at is are you over the tire/wheel ratings and have you paid the proper weight fee. If you are close to the tire and wheel rating when you get the TC upgrade the tires and wheels to something like 19.5 vision wheels and 19.5 tires in a 245/70R19.5 those have load ratings of 4500 pounds.

Someone else mentioned that as well - upgrading the wheels/tires. That's definitely something I'm going to look at! Thanks! Gives me some hope for at least hauling the TC alone, haha.

[Buzzcut1]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Do you think the TC alone (not towing a TT) is still too much for my truck? Assuming we try to keep the tanks empty and pack light.

What Kayteg1 has some good advice.
Simple numbers tells you 3320 lb rear axle minus 7000 rawr leaves 3680 lbs.

I wouldn't recommend driving 24/7 over axle/tire load ratings. Now if your just hauling 4k lbs of green wood or a load of RR ties from Lowes or a bed load of gravel for short run then you won't hurt the truck any.

That 7000 RAWR is based on the tires and wheels not what the axle is actually rated at (over 9000 by the MFG). Keep that in mind. Everyone will go off on the door tag. but all the DOT looks at is are you over the tire/wheel ratings and have you paid the proper weight fee. If you are close to the tire and wheel rating when you get the TC upgrade the tires and wheels to something like 19.5 vision wheels and 19.5 tires in a 245/70R19.5 those have load ratings of 4500 pounds.

[JIMNLIN]

Do you think the TC alone (not towing a TT) is still too much for my truck? Assuming we try to keep the tanks empty and pack light.

What Kayteg1 has some good advice.
Simple numbers tells you 3320 lb rear axle minus 7000 rawr leaves 3680 lbs.

I wouldn't recommend driving 24/7 over axle/tire load ratings. Now if your just hauling 4k lbs of green wood or a load of RR ties from Lowes or a bed load of gravel for short run then you won't hurt the truck any.