Is this doable or am I overlooking something??

[DD716TED]

We use our trailer a lot during the winter and in COLD weather.. Normally we use the propane furnace but it gobbles propane. The trailer is connected to the 30 amp outlet on the park post BUT when we try to use an electric space heater to help, the post breaker often trips when the microwave or other appliance is used.. Any thoughts about connecting a separate power cord from the park 15 amp pedestal outlet/breaker then routing it into the trailer to power the electric space heater??? had to ask

[Chum_lee]

beemerphile1 wrote:
It can be done and as others have stated - it is done but technically two power sources into one structure is a code violation.

Well, . . . . , that's a pretty broad statement. I'm not sure what local codes you're referencing. You didn't mention any. Have you ever heard of . . . . . SOLAR PANELS on the power grid? (two separate power sources going into the same structure) You need not reply.

Chum lee

[beemerphile1]

It can be done and as others have stated - it is done but technically two power sources into one structure is a code violation.

[dieseltruckdriv]

I also added a seperate outlet for a space heater, and have been accused of cheating/stealing in the past on this site. The fact is, the places I stay that have electric sites don't charge any difference for a 30 amp or a 50 amp rv. My 5er is a 30 amp rv, and my 30 amp with an additional 15 amp cord don't have the ability to use what a 50 amp rv could.
The only reason I do this is I don't trust the cheap receptacles every rv comes with to run a 1500 watt heater. When I use an internal outlet, I only use the heater on low.

[Chum_lee]

wa8yxm wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
For short term non-metered sites, they typically ask what your RV is (30 or 50 amp). Also, if you read the fine print on the rental agreement, it often mentions using additional outlets. So the owner would be very much within their rights to limit usage to a single outlet.

You might get away with it but that doesn't make it right.

When I bought my membership I was driving a 50 amp RV. the sales person promised me "Full Hookups" that's water, sewer, 50 amps and she even mentioned Wi-Fi. Thus I paid for 50 amps. and if the park only has 30's I'm going to use that 2nd cord.

Well, . . . . you quoted me, and then posted what "others" said, but, . . . . I think I get your point.

Chum lee

[wa8yxm]

Chum lee wrote:
For short term non-metered sites, they typically ask what your RV is (30 or 50 amp). Also, if you read the fine print on the rental agreement, it often mentions using additional outlets. So the owner would be very much within their rights to limit usage to a single outlet.

You might get away with it but that doesn't make it right.

When I bought my membership I was driving a 50 amp RV. the sales person promised me "Full Hookups" that's water, sewer, 50 amps and she even mentioned Wi-Fi. Thus I paid for 50 amps. and if the park only has 30's I'm going to use that 2nd cord.

[Chum_lee]

wapiticountry wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
I'm not in denial that it doesn't cost the CG more. Hwevrer for the most part these cost are negligible. For every guy running a 2nd codr there is someone staying in a tent or someone gone for the day and using minimal electric.
If electric cost where truly a profit and loss nightmare CG's would go to a metered format. However most do not simply because its not necessary. They set a price a build in a can't lose allowance for electric.
Now I agree there are CG's with wiring issues and CG's that feel they are being taking advantage of that prohibit 2nd cords.
My current rig is 50 amp so I can run a couple of space heaters microwave etc. with no issues.
Occasionally I end up on a 30 amp site, when 50 amp site are unavailable. Many state parks have only 30 amp sites.
In this scenario, I will use a 2nd cord to run my 2nd A/C when required.
I have my A/C wired through a transfer switch that allows me to chose 2nd cord circuit or internal (normal) 50 amp circuit.

When electricity is included in the overnight rates, the owner has factored that into the pricing. 50amp sites are almost always higher priced and one of the big reasons for that is 50amp rigs use more power. Likewise, tent sites are often lower cost.

For an individual renter, $6/night may sound negligible but when you multiply that out over 30 days per month and dozens of sites, it quickly becomes very significant for the owner.

When a park offers electricity (or any other amenity) as inclusive in the price that park has made that decision based on "average" usage. When a renter wants to add additional loads to those amenities beyond normal usage the park may need to place safeguards in their policies and procedures to prevent that from happening.
We learned that lesson the hard way. At our first park, when we were new to the business, we took some winter guests. We did not have metered electric, so we just went with our normal monthly rate. Little did we know that those guests would electrically heat everything. They used space heaters inside their rig. They had heat tape on all their lines. They even placed space heaters under their rigs, open to the outdoor air. They got that additional power by using every available outlet on the pedestal plus ran additional cords to the neighboring pedestals. Our normal in season power bill ran around $100.00 per rented site. That winter the power cost us over $600.00 per rented site. The site rental didn't even cover the power, much less the water, Sewer, cable TV, Wifi, Snow Removal, costs of keeping the restrooms open etc. It ended up being a multi-thousand dollar lesson learned.
Years of experience has taught us that you never know what lurks inside the RV you just rented a site to. It might just be a single space heater that would only add pennies to the power bill. However, it might someone who feels it is fine to run 10 space heaters and leave the windows and doors wide open when it is -10F. Heck, someday it might even be a mobile server farm that is mining for Bitcoins that if given free range will suck up $100s of dollars of power a day.

I am truly sorry to read this and, clearly, you have been taken advantage of. (hopefully, only a few times) I assure you, RV'ers, at least where I come from, are generally NOT like this. (IME, some are complete slobs, which is obvious) Others need to be 86'ed immediately. Live and learn. Get some night vision goggles, (infra red and fairly cheap) and patrol the campground daily and at night when its cold out. You'll spot the abusers right away.

Chum lee

[Chum_lee]

valhalla360 wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
If you pay for a 20, 30, or 50 amp unmetered space, (electricity is included in the daily/weekly rate) IMO, you can use all the plugs available at the pedestal in YOUR campsite. You can add additional extension cords, if needed. If the campground owner/manager complains, have them move you to (or charge you for) a larger service/space. (which will, most likely, be more expensive) Do not attempt to argue with with people who do not understand how electricity works. Simply move to another campground.

You have it backwards.

If you are paying a metered rate, as long as all the plugs go thru the meter and it doesn't start popping breakers, use what you want...you will pay for what you use.

For short term non-metered sites, they typically ask what your RV is (30 or 50 amp). Also, if you read the fine print on the rental agreement, it often mentions using additional outlets. So the owner would be very much within their rights to limit usage to a single outlet.

You might get away with it but that doesn't make it right.

Oh for God's sake, IMO, you've never owned a profitable business. So, . . . the "fine print" you've read covers ALL rental agreements? I don't think so. This is just boilerplate for those too lazy/stupid to read/think for themselves and apply it to whats currently "up." Am I encouraging RV'ers to steal from RV Parks? NO. I am not. Just the reverse. In most cases we're talking ignorance and pennies here.

Sure, . . . . you can be right. When I was about twelve years old, (I'm 67 now) I remember reading a biography about Henry Ford. The author mentioned Henry's constant annoyance with his bean counter penny pinching bookkeeper/accountant who knew "the price of everything, but, the value of nothing."

I've respected you to this point. I will no longer read your posts.

Chum lee

[Charlie_D_]

Check all the connections at breakers and any other wiring connection.
My home is all electric and my heater wstarted tripping.
Thinking I had a bad element I call my AC guy.
First thing he did was tighten all the screws at the breakers including neutrals and grounds.
Solved the problem.

[wapiticountry]

valhalla360 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
I'm not in denial that it doesn't cost the CG more. Hwevrer for the most part these cost are negligible. For every guy running a 2nd codr there is someone staying in a tent or someone gone for the day and using minimal electric.
If electric cost where truly a profit and loss nightmare CG's would go to a metered format. However most do not simply because its not necessary. They set a price a build in a can't lose allowance for electric.
Now I agree there are CG's with wiring issues and CG's that feel they are being taking advantage of that prohibit 2nd cords.
My current rig is 50 amp so I can run a couple of space heaters microwave etc. with no issues.
Occasionally I end up on a 30 amp site, when 50 amp site are unavailable. Many state parks have only 30 amp sites.
In this scenario, I will use a 2nd cord to run my 2nd A/C when required.
I have my A/C wired through a transfer switch that allows me to chose 2nd cord circuit or internal (normal) 50 amp circuit.

When electricity is included in the overnight rates, the owner has factored that into the pricing. 50amp sites are almost always higher priced and one of the big reasons for that is 50amp rigs use more power. Likewise, tent sites are often lower cost.

For an individual renter, $6/night may sound negligible but when you multiply that out over 30 days per month and dozens of sites, it quickly becomes very significant for the owner.

When a park offers electricity (or any other amenity) as inclusive in the price that park has made that decision based on "average" usage. When a renter wants to add additional loads to those amenities beyond normal usage the park may need to place safeguards in their policies and procedures to prevent that from happening.
We learned that lesson the hard way. At our first park, when we were new to the business, we took some winter guests. We did not have metered electric, so we just went with our normal monthly rate. Little did we know that those guests would electrically heat everything. They used space heaters inside their rig. They had heat tape on all their lines. They even placed space heaters under their rigs, open to the outdoor air. They got that additional power by using every available outlet on the pedestal plus ran additional cords to the neighboring pedestals. Our normal in season power bill ran around $100.00 per rented site. That winter the power cost us over $600.00 per rented site. The site rental didn't even cover the power, much less the water, Sewer, cable TV, Wifi, Snow Removal, costs of keeping the restrooms open etc. It ended up being a multi-thousand dollar lesson learned.
Years of experience has taught us that you never know what lurks inside the RV you just rented a site to. It might just be a single space heater that would only add pennies to the power bill. However, it might someone who feels it is fine to run 10 space heaters and leave the windows and doors wide open when it is -10F. Heck, someday it might even be a mobile server farm that is mining for Bitcoins that if given free range will suck up $100s of dollars of power a day.

[valhalla360]

Lantley wrote:
I'm not in denial that it doesn't cost the CG more. Hwevrer for the most part these cost are negligible. For every guy running a 2nd codr there is someone staying in a tent or someone gone for the day and using minimal electric.
If electric cost where truly a profit and loss nightmare CG's would go to a metered format. However most do not simply because its not necessary. They set a price a build in a can't lose allowance for electric.
Now I agree there are CG's with wiring issues and CG's that feel they are being taking advantage of that prohibit 2nd cords.
My current rig is 50 amp so I can run a couple of space heaters microwave etc. with no issues.
Occasionally I end up on a 30 amp site, when 50 amp site are unavailable. Many state parks have only 30 amp sites.
In this scenario, I will use a 2nd cord to run my 2nd A/C when required.
I have my A/C wired through a transfer switch that allows me to chose 2nd cord circuit or internal (normal) 50 amp circuit.

When electricity is included in the overnight rates, the owner has factored that into the pricing. 50amp sites are almost always higher priced and one of the big reasons for that is 50amp rigs use more power. Likewise, tent sites are often lower cost.

For an individual renter, $6/night may sound negligible but when you multiply that out over 30 days per month and dozens of sites, it quickly becomes very significant for the owner.

[Lantley]

valhalla360 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
I don't think its a matter of getting away with it. If the outlets are available I have no hesitancy to use them.
However the CG owner has the right to charge extra or ban additional cords. In the end it's their CG and their rules.

If you check with the owner and they don't care or charge you a separate fee, go for it.

If you are running something minor like awning lights that draw very little (say 50w for 3-4hr in the evening), they probably aren't going to care but if everyone is running a 1.5kw heater (in addition to maxing out their 30amp), if it's running say 20hr per day, that's 30kw-hr/day (on the second plug). At 20c per kw-hr that's $6 of electricity extra. If you have 100 sites doing this, it's $600/day the owner is losing...or $18,000 per month.

While that's a bit of an higher end example, even if it's half that, you can see where owners may not take kindly to abusing the available power.

I'm not in denial that it doesn't cost the CG more. Hwevrer for the most part these cost are negligible. For every guy running a 2nd codr there is someone staying in a tent or someone gone for the day and using minimal electric.
If electric cost where truly a profit and loss nightmare CG's would go to a metered format. However most do not simply because its not necessary. They set a price a build in a can't lose allowance for electric.
Now I agree there are CG's with wiring issues and CG's that feel they are being taking advantage of that prohibit 2nd cords.
My current rig is 50 amp so I can run a couple of space heaters microwave etc. with no issues.
Occasionally I end up on a 30 amp site, when 50 amp site are unavailable. Many state parks have only 30 amp sites.
In this scenario, I will use a 2nd cord to run my 2nd A/C when required.
I have my A/C wired through a transfer switch that allows me to chose 2nd cord circuit or internal (normal) 50 amp circuit.

[valhalla360]

Lantley wrote:
I don't think its a matter of getting away with it. If the outlets are available I have no hesitancy to use them.
However the CG owner has the right to charge extra or ban additional cords. In the end it's their CG and their rules.

If you check with the owner and they don't care or charge you a separate fee, go for it.

If you are running something minor like awning lights that draw very little (say 50w for 3-4hr in the evening), they probably aren't going to care but if everyone is running a 1.5kw heater (in addition to maxing out their 30amp), if it's running say 20hr per day, that's 30kw-hr/day (on the second plug). At 20c per kw-hr that's $6 of electricity extra. If you have 100 sites doing this, it's $600/day the owner is losing...or $18,000 per month.

While that's a bit of an higher end example, even if it's half that, you can see where owners may not take kindly to abusing the available power.

[Lantley]

valhalla360 wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
If you pay for a 20, 30, or 50 amp unmetered space, (electricity is included in the daily/weekly rate) IMO, you can use all the plugs available at the pedestal in YOUR campsite. You can add additional extension cords, if needed. If the campground owner/manager complains, have them move you to (or charge you for) a larger service/space. (which will, most likely, be more expensive) Do not attempt to argue with with people who do not understand how electricity works. Simply move to another campground.

You have it backwards.

If you are paying a metered rate, as long as all the plugs go thru the meter and it doesn't start popping breakers, use what you want...you will pay for what you use.

For short term non-metered sites, they typically ask what your RV is (30 or 50 amp). Also, if you read the fine print on the rental agreement, it often mentions using additional outlets. So the owner would be very much within their rights to limit usage to a single outlet.

You might get away with it but that doesn't make it right.

I don't think its a matter of getting away with it. If the outlets are available I have no hesitancy to use them.
However the CG owner has the right to charge extra or ban additional cords. In the end it's their CG and their rules.

[valhalla360]

Chum lee wrote:
If you pay for a 20, 30, or 50 amp unmetered space, (electricity is included in the daily/weekly rate) IMO, you can use all the plugs available at the pedestal in YOUR campsite. You can add additional extension cords, if needed. If the campground owner/manager complains, have them move you to (or charge you for) a larger service/space. (which will, most likely, be more expensive) Do not attempt to argue with with people who do not understand how electricity works. Simply move to another campground.

You have it backwards.

If you are paying a metered rate, as long as all the plugs go thru the meter and it doesn't start popping breakers, use what you want...you will pay for what you use.

For short term non-metered sites, they typically ask what your RV is (30 or 50 amp). Also, if you read the fine print on the rental agreement, it often mentions using additional outlets. So the owner would be very much within their rights to limit usage to a single outlet.

You might get away with it but that doesn't make it right.