Fifth Wheel Purchase

[SonnieP]

My wife and I are looking for a fifth wheel we can pull with our 2020 Ram 1500 crew cab... 5.8 eTorque, 4x4 with 3.90 gear... supposedly can pull close to 12K.

We have been looking at the Keystone Cougar Half-Ton 25RES and the Jayco Eagle HT 24RE... somewhat similar in floorplan that we like, and keeping the price under $40K. Have not really looked much elsewhere, but would be open to suggestions.

I did not want to post this in one of the brand forums because it might not be fair to one brand over the other.

I was unable to find out much about how the Keystone is built, but Jayco puts a good bit of info on their site about the features of their units. I like the idea of the Nev-R-Adjust® Brakes that the Jayco has... their Laminated Wall Construction... ClimateShield... and the fully enclosed and heated underbelly. Keystone may have similar features, but apparently not as advertised, with the exception of ClimateGuard.

The reviews are somewhat of a "wow"... could not believe all the poor reviews I am reading of both brands. There does seem to be more poor reviews for Keystone than Jayco, although it seems like each have their share of issues.

Curious if anyone has these particular units, or maybe if I can simply hear from owners of these brands and/or models.

No offense, but not knowing what participation and ownership of these models is like in the various RV forums, you may see this cross posted in another forum.

Regards,
Sonnie

[valhalla360]

BurbMan wrote:
Valhalla, OP says in the first post the truck has 3.90 gears, so the Hemi should pull that weight just fine.

I never said he didn't have enough pulling power. It's rare with modern drivetrains not to have enough yank to get a trailer rolling.

With only 1600lb payload, he will likely be over weight.

[SonnieP]

camp-n-family wrote:


Still a typo. There is no 5.8l hemi. It’s a 5.7l in the Ram 1500.

Yep... 5.7L V8 eTorque

Hey... I was only .1L off... that's not much. 🙂

[camp-n-family]

SonnieP wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Your 1500 Ram can tow a 5th wheel trailer but it would be a small one. Those that say a 1/2 ton truck can't/shouldn't tow a 5th wheel trailer. They are not all the same size. GVWR can go up to 8600 gvwr but more importantly RAWR up to 6000 lbs depending on truck brands/year models.
You have the truck so like all truckers you need front and rear axle weights, after loading hitch/folks/junk, to know how much capacity you have to work with which I would bet is going to be close to that 1612 lb payload numbers.
I would stay under 8000 lbs max "gross" TT weight for a more relaxing operation on long day trips. The 5.7 Hemi at 395 hp/410 torque coupled with the 3.90 rear axle ratio sure won't have any issues pulling a 8k trailer.

You mention a 5.8 etorque engine. Is that a typo ??

Thanks for the info... and yes... it's a 5.8L Hemi with the eTorque.

Still a typo. There is no 5.8l hemi. It’s a 5.7l in the Ram 1500.

[Njmurvin]

My fifth wheel is 12K lbs and it is everything my 2004.5 Ram 3500 (with 5.9 Cummins Diesel) could handle. I can't imagine trying to pull it with a 1500.

[BurbMan]

Wing_zealot finished the equation, I would look at TTs in the 5500-lb dry weight range, which should put you right about your 25' target size.

Valhalla, OP says in the first post the truck has 3.90 gears, so the Hemi should pull that weight just fine.

Running a little over weight isn't the end of the world, but load the truck too heavy and long highway drives can get real tedious real fast.

[SonnieP]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Your 1500 Ram can tow a 5th wheel trailer but it would be a small one. Those that say a 1/2 ton truck can't/shouldn't tow a 5th wheel trailer. They are not all the same size. GVWR can go up to 8600 gvwr but more importantly RAWR up to 6000 lbs depending on truck brands/year models.
You have the truck so like all truckers you need front and rear axle weights, after loading hitch/folks/junk, to know how much capacity you have to work with which I would bet is going to be close to that 1612 lb payload numbers.
I would stay under 8000 lbs max "gross" TT weight for a more relaxing operation on long day trips. The 5.7 Hemi at 395 hp/410 torque coupled with the 3.90 rear axle ratio sure won't have any issues pulling a 8k trailer.

You mention a 5.8 etorque engine. Is that a typo ??

Thanks for the info... and yes... it's a 5.8L Hemi with the eTorque.

[JIMNLIN]

SonnieP wrote:
Not that it matters for a 5th wheel, but I transposed the numbers on the payload. The sticker on the door well is 1612lbs... NOT 1162.

We started out looking at travel trailers and let my friend convince me to go the fifth wheel route. If we decided to go with a TT, what should I look for to safely tow? Tongue weight and overall weight?

Regards,
Sonnie

Your 1500 Ram can tow a 5th wheel trailer but it would be a small one. Those that say a 1/2 ton truck can't/shouldn't tow a 5th wheel trailer. They are not all the same size. GVWR can go up to 8600 gvwr but more importantly RAWR up to 6000 lbs depending on truck brands/year models.
You have the truck so like all truckers you need front and rear axle weights, after loading hitch/folks/junk, to know how much capacity you have to work with which I would bet is going to be close to that 1612 lb payload numbers.
I would stay under 8000 lbs max "gross" TT weight for a more relaxing operation on long day trips. The 5.7 Hemi at 395 hp/410 torque coupled with the 3.90 rear axle ratio sure won't have any issues pulling a 8k trailer.

You mention a 5.8 etorque engine. Is that a typo ??

[valhalla360]

wing_zealot wrote:
Tongue weight should ideally be 12% of the trailer weight (10% minimum). So 762 divided by 12% = 6350 lbs (trailer weight fully loaded and traveling down the road ready to camp). Clicky - Non-biased, reliable information

Agreed, I would treat the 6350 as max GVWR on the trailer as a starting point for trailers to consider.

If you want to get a better idea, go down to your local truck stop loaded as if you were going to hook up the trailer and weigh the truck (put the family, full tank of gas and all the gear you would take in the truck). That will give you both overall weight and per axle weight, so no guessing how much payload you have remaining. It's easy, will cost $12-14.

PS: transposing the payload to 1600lb doesn't leave you a towing power house but makes it a lot more viable to pull a travel trailer in the 20-26ft range.

[wing_zealot]

Tongue weight should ideally be 12% of the trailer weight (10% minimum). So 762 divided by 12% = 6350 lbs (trailer weight fully loaded and traveling down the road ready to camp). Clicky - Non-biased, reliable information

[SonnieP]

Probably should move this to the travel trailer forum now.

We were originally looking at travel trailers and my friend got us side-tracked on 5th wheels. IF we got back to considering a travel trailer. I am curious as to what we can safely pull with my truck.

I was mistaken on the payload... transposed the numbers. Sticker in door well shows 1612lbs.

1612lbs to start.
-400 - my wife and I
-100 - tool box with a few tools (I can pick it up easily)
-200 - other stuff in the truck (sub box, running boards, etc)
-150 - ? truck hitch weight
762lbs - is what the trailer hitch weight can be - am I calculating this correctly?

We will have some clothes in the trailer... no water... a couple of lounge chairs, hoses, cables, a few dishes, and some food. We'll add a Dishmate for our Dish satellite.

So if I am safely at about 600-700lbs hitch weight... how do I calculate what the weight of the trailer can be?

We definitely would not want to be over about 26ft for safety reasons.

Regards,
Sonnie

[BurbMan]

SonnieP wrote:
The sticker on the door well is 1612lbs

Here are the 24RE specs:

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 7980
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 1495
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 9995
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) 12995
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 2015

So 1612-1495 = 117 lbs available capacity after hitching the trailer.

Real world: Average folks add 1200 lbs of stuff to their RV, so the hitch weight is likely going to be in the 1800 lb range, add 200 lbs for the actual hitch, and 150 lbs each for driver and passenger, you are at 2300 lbs. 2300-1612 = 688 lbs overloaded on the truck.

We always wind up buying a bigger trailer than we think we will (also known as 2 foot-itis), and why the wise old guys here on the forum will tell you to but the trailer first then buy the right truck to pull it.

You should be able to find any number of TTs that have a comfortable floorplan like the 24RE with tongue weight well within the range of your truck. Get a good weight distributing (WD) hitch and it will tow just fine.

I would suggest buying a used trailer, see how you like it, when it's time to upgrade the truck in 2-3 years then you decide if you want to go 5er. A 5-ish year won't depreciate near as much as a new one in the next 3 years.

[wing_zealot]

TXiceman wrote:
A 1/2 ton truck is severely limited as for towing by the rear axle GAWR and the payload capacity. The payload capacity included the trailer pin weight, hitch weight, passenger and cargo. A typical 5er will have a loaded pin weight of about 20% of the trailer GVWR. So if your trailer has a GVWR of 8000#, the loaded pin weight will be about 1600#. A short bed truck should have a slider hitch, so add another 200# to the bed. Add 2 kids and a wife and any cargo in the truck and you have another 300# or more. Your load on the truck is 1600 + 200 + 300 or 2100#. Is your truck payload or cargo capacity over 2100#. YES!

Also, most 1/2 ton trucks on the dealers lots have P series tires, not LT series tires. The P series have softer side walls and will squirm more under load.

Ken

And it also has LT tires.
Actually, the badge on the side isn't the determining factor; the ratings on the door and elsewhere are. I have more payload then some F250's.

[SonnieP]

Not that it matters for a 5th wheel, but I transposed the numbers on the payload. The sticker on the door well is 1612lbs... NOT 1162.

We started out looking at travel trailers and let my friend convince me to go the fifth wheel route. If we decided to go with a TT, what should I look for to safely tow? Tongue weight and overall weight?

Regards,
Sonnie

[TXiceman]

A 1/2 ton truck is severely limited as for towing by the rear axle GAWR and the payload capacity. The payload capacity included the trailer pin weight, hitch weight, passenger and cargo. A typical 5er will have a loaded pin weight of about 20% of the trailer GVWR. So if your trailer has a GVWR of 8000#, the loaded pin weight will be about 1600#. A short bed truck should have a slider hitch, so add another 200# to the bed. Add 2 kids and a wife and any cargo in the truck and you have another 300# or more. Your load on the truck is 1600 + 200 + 300 or 2100#. Is your truck payload or cargo capacity over 2100#.

Also, most 1/2 ton trucks on the dealers lots have P series tires, not LT series tires. The P series have softer side walls and will squirm more under load.

Ken