Furrion Instant Hot Water in Cold Weather

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I've been couch surfing various new RVs. Grand Design has switched some units to tankless instant hot water heaters. It appears that they are required to be winterized and NOT used in sub 39F conditions. That's crazy!!

I would consider that a show stopper and would likely purchase a different brand. Is anybody familiar with this stuff? Can you retrofit a good old 6 gallon water heater in? Maybe switch to a different tankless brand?

I'm just trying to learn as I near that next big purchase.

[Skibane]

deltafiredog55s3 wrote:
My 5er has a Girard tankless water heater which has an adjustable temp control which allows water temps up to 131* and a built-in thermostat that starts the burner whenever the heat exchanger falls below 38* and heats to 58*.

Witt no water flow, that must be a really short burner run-time.

[valhalla360]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Tankless water heaters by design have a limited amount of time to warm water. the heating unit only hold a quart or so of water, so water passing through it is only in the heating coils for about 20 seconds for a faucet discharging less than a gallon a minute. Usually they warm the water about 50 degrees by design at their designed flow rate.
If the incoming water is 70 degrees, then it heats to 120 which is fine, but if the incoming water is 40, then the warmed water only has time to reach 90, which is lukewarm at best.

I'm betting this is the main reason. They don't want to field calls claiming the water heater isn't working right.

[deltafiredog55s]

My 5er has a Girard tankless water heater which has an adjustable temp control which allows water temps up to 131* and a built-in thermostat that starts the burner whenever the heat exchanger falls below 38* and heats to 58*. This works as this past Dec. we camped with overnite temps to 9* with no problems. Suggest the op's friend check his wh docs to see if his is so equipped.

[pianotuna]

Skibane,

I replaced the cold air return grill with a twin window fan. It pressurizes the heat ducts enough to prevent freezing for me. It draws 27 watts on high. I have it connected to a manual thermostat.

Before the fan I had used a 1500 watt heater inside the cabinets. It was not enough to prevent plumbing freeze ups.

[Skibane]

Seems like there ought to be some way of installing a small electric heating element near the area that's prone to freezing - which would at least help when you had AC hookups.

[NJRVer]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Tankless water heaters by design have a limited amount of time to warm water. the heating unit only hold a quart or so of water, so water passing through it is only in the heating coils for about 20 seconds for a faucet discharging less than a gallon a minute. Usually they warm the water about 50 degrees by design at their designed flow rate.
If the incoming water is 70 degrees, then it heats to 120 which is fine, but if the incoming water is 40, then the warmed water only has time to reach 90, which is lukewarm at best.

Another issue is water pressure.
If you read the literature on home tankless, they will say not to have water pressure above a certain limit as it pushes the water through too fast to get hot. They want a pressure reducer installed.
Tankless sounds nice, but I would not buy one if I was going to be in cold weather.

[ScottG]

IB853347201 wrote:

ScottG wrote:
My buddy bought a big GD trailer at the end of last season so hasn't been able to camp in it yet. It has the Furion tankless WH so next season will be interesting.
The trailer itself has less than stellar build quality and engineering. It has two leaks (so far), large holes in the bottom corners of the three slides (in or out) and common things missing like a porch light. Every time he shuts the door the whole side of the trailer jiggles and he's having a heck of a time getting GD to send him the missing bits and pieces he found during the PDI. Factory and dealer (Halterman RV) support is dismal. There are numerous shortcuts they took building this rig. - stuff you don't notice until you get it home.
This co. is not what it used to be and I would seriously reconsider before buying this brand.

Hmm, your Buddy's experience is perplexing and contrary to ours. We spent 4 months camping in a 2021 GD Imagine 30 and it was one of the best built TT's we have ever had. Odd....

That was another surprise; The difference between a 2021 and 2022 model was like night and day. Lots of cost-cutting changes. You would not think they were made by the same co.

[IB853347201]

ScottG wrote:
My buddy bought a big GD trailer at the end of last season so hasn't been able to camp in it yet. It has the Furion tankless WH so next season will be interesting.
The trailer itself has less than stellar build quality and engineering. It has two leaks (so far), large holes in the bottom corners of the three slides (in or out) and common things missing like a porch light. Every time he shuts the door the whole side of the trailer jiggles and he's having a heck of a time getting GD to send him the missing bits and pieces he found during the PDI. Factory and dealer (Halterman RV) support is dismal. There are numerous shortcuts they took building this rig. - stuff you don't notice until you get it home.
This co. is not what it used to be and I would seriously reconsider before buying this brand.

Hmm, your Buddy's experience is perplexing and contrary to ours. We spent 4 months camping in a 2021 GD Imagine 30 and it was one of the best built TT's we have ever had. Odd....

[rhagfo]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Tankless water heaters by design have a limited amount of time to warm water. the heating unit only hold a quart or so of water, so water passing through it is only in the heating coils for about 20 seconds for a faucet discharging less than a gallon a minute. Usually they warm the water about 50 degrees by design at their designed flow rate.
If the incoming water is 70 degrees, then it heats to 120 which is fine, but if the incoming water is 40, then the warmed water only has time to reach 90, which is lukewarm at best.

I agree that this is the limiting factor at 39 degrees. When we are in cold weather 40 degrees to high teens, even with heated water hose the cold water at the faucet is COLD!
We full time, we cook with gas, including using the oven, and broiler, and heat hot water with gas, we also have the electric element on, which helps maintain the water hot. We heat with electricity (RV Comfort Systems "Cheap Heat")and refer is using electricity. We use about one 30# tank of propane a month.
We have a 10 gallon, and we can take showers one after another and both normally have plenty of hot water.

[wanderingaimles]

Tankless water heaters by design have a limited amount of time to warm water. the heating unit only hold a quart or so of water, so water passing through it is only in the heating coils for about 20 seconds for a faucet discharging less than a gallon a minute. Usually they warm the water about 50 degrees by design at their designed flow rate.
If the incoming water is 70 degrees, then it heats to 120 which is fine, but if the incoming water is 40, then the warmed water only has time to reach 90, which is lukewarm at best.

[wa8yxm]

The problem that I see with the tankless is not 39 but 32 39 is a safety buffer.. They hold a small amount of water... and can be damaged if it freezes.

now an Atwood or Suburban tank type. if it's 10 below zero the burner keeps the water HOT, and liquid (so long as it is turned on) and contrary to the myth hot water does not freeze at all (it has to get cold first) (The myth is it freezes faster.. NO IT DOES NOT) so so long as the water heater is operating it can not freeze. but the Tankless.. Can so you need to keep them above freezing.

There are ways to do this .

[ScottG]

My buddy bought a big GD trailer at the end of last season so hasn't been able to camp in it yet. It has the Furion tankless WH so next season will be interesting.
The trailer itself has less than stellar build quality and engineering. It has two leaks (so far), large holes in the bottom corners of the three slides (in or out) and common things missing like a porch light. Every time he shuts the door the whole side of the trailer jiggles and he's having a heck of a time getting GD to send him the missing bits and pieces he found during the PDI. Factory and dealer (Halterman RV) support is dismal. There are numerous shortcuts they took building this rig. - stuff you don't notice until you get it home.
This co. is not what it used to be and I would seriously reconsider before buying this brand.

[Lwiddis]

Sub 39F? Wow, lots of camping in and around 39F.

[TurnThePage]

I'm pretty easy. LP or electric. I would prefer one that does both. Looking on line, I wasn't very sure of the panel size. I guess if there's room inside, it might be easy enough to enlarge it.