LiFePo4 vs Lead Acid...Some points of interest.

[3_tons]

When evaluating the two different battery types (i.e. Lead acid vs LiFePo4), I found this ‘to the point’ summary to be both informed and helpful...

https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/lithium-vs-lead-acid-batteries/

3 tons

[JKJavelin]

Yeah, I was waiting for this to start...
But as poor basic grammar becomes more common, it will become the norm, and eventually, accepted.
What was this thread about???
JK

[Itinerant1]

Wownowgrammerandpunctuationpoliceareoutitsgoingtobealongwinter :0

[larry_cad]

Freep wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:


cost is a mute point in my opinion, your never going to be as cheep as a FLA set up, but if you are going to match capacity for cold weather preformance and take life into consideration then that changes.

also for some reason people like comparting cost wise to the cheepest sams club battery, at least compare premium batteries to a LFP as thats what it is. the article is pretty deicent, it still is just a companies buying guide but they don't seam to be pushing one way or the other.

Ten misspelled words in three sentences.
You're
Moot
Cheap
Performance
Comparing
Cheapest
Decent
Company's
Seem

Also no punctuation.

54% of American adults cannot read or write prose beyond a sixth grade level.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/09/09/low-literacy-levels-among-us-adults-could-be...

Thank you. Painful, but true.

[wa8yxm]

Some interesting info there.. Especially the low temp discharge.

Mounted in the ENGINE compartment I would hope that the battery would charg (LiFePo4) as it would have "Warmed" when starting ther ride and then be warmed additionally by radiated engine heat. But the key word may well be 'Hope'.

[3_tons]

Freep wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:


cost is a mute point in my opinion, your never going to be as cheep as a FLA set up, but if you are going to match capacity for cold weather preformance and take life into consideration then that changes.

also for some reason people like comparting cost wise to the cheepest sams club battery, at least compare premium batteries to a LFP as thats what it is. the article is pretty deicent, it still is just a companies buying guide but they don't seam to be pushing one way or the other.

Ten misspelled words in three sentences.
You're
Moot
Cheap
Performance
Comparing
Cheapest
Decent
Company's
Seem

Also no punctuation.

54% of American adults cannot read or write prose beyond a sixth grade level.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/09/09/low-literacy-levels-among-us-adults-could-be...

Man, you Sir are truly one ‘angry Upstart’ lol!!…Note if you will that StirCrazy is not American, nor do we know what his nationality is, but thanks to you we can appreciate that his education is likely inferior to your’s, right??

From my perspective, it’s this arrogant, self-centric attitude that suggest why ‘he’s no fool’ Musk refuses to hire myopic, elite MBA’s…

3 tons

[Freep]

StirCrazy wrote:


cost is a mute point in my opinion, your never going to be as cheep as a FLA set up, but if you are going to match capacity for cold weather preformance and take life into consideration then that changes.

also for some reason people like comparting cost wise to the cheepest sams club battery, at least compare premium batteries to a LFP as thats what it is. the article is pretty deicent, it still is just a companies buying guide but they don't seam to be pushing one way or the other.

Ten misspelled words in three sentences.
You're
Moot
Cheap
Performance
Comparing
Cheapest
Decent
Company's
Seem

Also no punctuation.

54% of American adults cannot read or write prose beyond a sixth grade level.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/09/09/low-literacy-levels-among-us-adults-could-be...

[StirCrazy]

FWC wrote:
That appears to be a fairly reasonable comparison, although they don't mention cost. The nice thing is Power Sonic sells both, so maybe there is less baked in marketing BS.

cost is a mute point in my opinion, your never going to be as cheep as a FLA set up, but if you are going to match capacity for cold weather preformance and take life into consideration then that changes.

also for some reason people like comparting cost wise to the cheepest sams club battery, at least compare premium batteries to a LFP as thats what it is. the article is pretty deicent, it still is just a companies buying guide but they don't seam to be pushing one way or the other.

[StirCrazy]

Freep wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

Victron is like GO Power or like Battleborn. They came out with a quality product when there wasn't much competition and they could set their price. Now that there is lots of competition they don't want to drop their price and start ad campaigns to trash the quality of other manufactures, say because they are made in China. Well, both good and bad quality can come out of china and that depends largely on the specs the importing company gives the manufacturer. Most of Victron probably comes over in sea cans and they're good quality. My 50 buck battery monitor is the same set up as the 250.00 Victron (CDN pricing) the only thing different is the Victron has Bluetooth. Bluetooth would be worth an extra 20 to 30 bucks, but not 200.00.

Steve

Keep in mind that Victron offers a lot more than just Bluetooth. Many of their components coordinate with each other, Victron also uses CAN bus, have developed the Venus Operating System for their monitoring and control features and opened it up for developers and DIYers. For example, a developer can run the Victron operating system on a Raspberry Pi and create their own custom monitoring and automation. And a lot of people do this.

So if you need that sort of interoperability and flexibility, it's hard to beat Victron. If you also don't mind paying the premium, then Victron is pretty much impossible to beat.

With all that said, it still looks like the claim that Victron uses some special lookup table for their Smart Shunt is false. It has a lot of great features, but that isn't one of them from what I can tell. And even if it is true, with most LiFePo4 packs you'll never be able to tell the difference between counting Coulombs and counting Coulombs plus using a lookup table.

obviously if your going with a whole system you stick with compatable parts, but most of the time you are not and just getting a piece here and there. the smart shunt is oneof there pieces I do like to add in with liFePo4 setups, a little pricy but not to bad. a lot of the controlers we see out there are pi based thats why there has been a flood of them laitly even in BMS. I am looking at a couple BMS that are basicly using a Pi as the brains. they are looking pretty good so far..

Steve

[3_tons]

To the larger forum group, as the OP here my sincere apologies are in order - admittedly, I’m not too adept here (starting at pg 15) with managing hidden demeanor and nebulous sensitivities (my civilian side bad...), trust that I do view cooperation, ‘authenticity’ and consideration of others as the intended order of the day -

3 tons

[FWC]

Freep wrote:

I didn't even know about the zero setting since I used the 100% setting when the battery was full and it works fine.

Yours will sync at 100%? Mine doesn't seem to do that.

[Freep]

3 tons wrote:
Well, for the record Sir I never once knocked your AiLi meter, and even stated that I was not familiar with it...But then (per your demand for ‘evidence’...) it was presumed to be incumbent on me to prove that Victron was any different that your Chinese made meter (huh??)...No doubt the Chinese have the ability to make good stuff, but owning a Victron, why should I care about comparing to a particular brand labeled AiLi, or any other brand??...There’s no need whatsoever to justify what works for you, in fact, having read the AiLi instruction link you’ve just provided, it says it’s suitable for Lithium so I take AiLi at their word, but you’d previously stated that it was strictly a coulomb counter, but that the error rate was only negligible - fair enough, but understand that I have no interest in disparaging the brand of your’s or anyone’s meter choice du jour..I did say for the broader audience that my former LinkLite had proven not compatible with LiFePO4, of which (for reasons unknown) you chose to casually dismiss as just a defective meter (Not!)...Seems (per your past pointed accusations) that you sought to call me out for ‘hidden reasons’, but it’s far better to just stick with tech matters, which is why we’re all here - JMHO

3 tons

OMG, just stop.

[Freep]

FWC wrote:

Freep wrote:


The snark and derision is unnecessary.

https://www.rvhabit.com/post/installing-a-full-function-rv-battery-monitor-from-aili

https://static.wixstatic.com/ugd/659bdd_c04e5a349924435bbfb69ed054b065ff.pdf

Actually you're setting your zero capacity voltage point rather than the full, but it's for the same purpose and of course your capacity.

Ignoring the bickering, resetting at zero SOC isn't useful. Most folks rarely run their battery down to 0% SOC as it greatly shortens the life (lead) or risks a BMS shutdown (lithium), and in general you want some reserve capacity (both). So in practice this does not actually do anything.

I didn't even know about the zero setting since I used the 100% setting when the battery was full and it works fine.

[3_tons]

Well, for the record Sir I never once knocked your AiLi meter, and even stated that I was not familiar with it...But then (per your demand for ‘evidence’...) it was presumed to be incumbent on me to prove that Victron was any different that your Chinese made meter (huh??)...No doubt the Chinese have the ability to make good stuff, but owning a Victron, why should I care about comparing to a particular brand labeled AiLi, or any other brand??...There’s no need whatsoever to justify what works for you, in fact, having read the AiLi instruction link you’ve just provided, it says it’s suitable for Lithium so I take AiLi at their word, but you’d previously stated that it was strictly a coulomb counter, but that the error rate was only negligible - fair enough, but understand that I have no interest in disparaging the brand of your’s or anyone’s meter choice du jour..I did say for the broader audience that my former LinkLite had proven not compatible with LiFePO4, of which (for reasons unknown) you chose to casually dismiss as just a defective meter (Not!)...Seems (per your past pointed accusations) that you sought to call me out for ‘hidden reasons’, but it’s far better to just stick with tech matters, which is why we’re all here - JMHO

3 tons

[FWC]

Freep wrote:


The snark and derision is unnecessary.

https://www.rvhabit.com/post/installing-a-full-function-rv-battery-monitor-from-aili

https://static.wixstatic.com/ugd/659bdd_c04e5a349924435bbfb69ed054b065ff.pdf

Actually you're setting your zero capacity voltage point rather than the full, but it's for the same purpose and of course your capacity.

Ignoring the bickering, resetting at zero SOC isn't useful. Most folks rarely run their battery down to 0% SOC as it greatly shortens the life (lead) or risks a BMS shutdown (lithium), and in general you want some reserve capacity (both). So in practice this does not actually do anything.

[Freep]

3 tons wrote:
“ The snark and derision is unnecessary.”??...Snark, How so ?? (apparently only when I use your same words??)..I really don’t get it - I guess I forgot to check the box for a ‘sensitivities waiver’...:)

3 tons, in the High NV Desert, where sensitivities are not a currency

Please stop.