Help Ram 2500 6.4 gas vs diesel

[Jastrong]

Hi, I was really hoping to get some help with a decision from people that actually tow. The ones I'm familiar with that do g camping aren't the most approachable. Ok so my wife and I bought a 2016 ram 2500 with the 6.4. The plan was to get a camper as a number of her family has them and we would really like to do that with our young daughter. Last time we camped we had rented a TT that was about 7500 lbs iirc. The truck seemed to to fine with it. Think I got 11 mpg with it from Indiana to dale hollow and back. However we discovered that we'd probably rather look into a 5th wheel for various reasons partly we've been told they pull better. Anyway her cousin has the same year truck as us only with the Cummins that he pulls his big keystone Montana 5th wheel with. So out of curiosity I'm comparing stats because I was thinking of trading up but what I found is this. My truck with the 6.4 has (off the top of my head) trailering capacity of 12900lbs and payload of 3060 lbs and the diesel has a trailering capacity of about 17000lbs but a payload of only around 2200lbs. What I really need to figure out is is my 6.4 gas going to do ok with the 5th (we may go over to south Carolina to visit relatives and such at times) or is the Cummins going to do better. The payload concerns me because if I stay under that by the time I get a 5th ight enough to do well with it it won't be any bigger than the one the fastest would pull. But then our family member seems to be doing well with his. I don't know maybe one of you guys can help me out

[noteven]

Grit dog wrote:

noteven wrote:
Why do we "hooray" more tran mission speeds in pickup trucks then complain when the truck shifts gears when we are towing?

Are you 4x4ord's alter ego?

No.

[Grit_dog]

^Good points. And the OP is trying to figure that out it seems.
If he gets bit by the “gotta have _____ because it’s bigger than my brother in laws camper” , then may as well pony up for a diesel now.
If he can talk the wifey out of the 1-1/2 bath Tajmahauler condo on wheels for 2 adults and one miniature person to go to the State park and ride bikes and cook smores on the weekends in the summer, then the options are almost endless.

To the OP, IMO don’t get hung up on a 5ver for casual use. Yes they tow “better” in some respects, but most tag trailers pull fine too and the end result for the casual user is the same. You tow a big trailer down the road to somewhere and then grab a cold beer out of the fridge inside and make dinner and have a few cocktails and go to sleep.

I didn’t realize the vast number of different or unique offerings in the bp toyhauler market until searching the last few months. Within a specific “similar” range, there are probably 100 different models out there all a bit different. And advantages or drawbacks with each depending on the buyers preferences.
Once a person begins looking in detail and comparing different models and brands, the differences become obvious. But starting out it’s sort of a “these pretty much look the same, idk why this one is 30% more expensive....or cheaper.”

[mkirsch]

I'm scratching my head here... Who is holding a gun to your head saying you HAVE to get that giant Montana 5th whee?

There are hundreds if not thousands of 5th wheel trailer models on the market with plenty of room for a family of three, that aren't giant 18,000lb portable McMansions. Go shopping.

Are you in a position to trade trucks? Usually when someone has just purchased a truck, having to turn around and trade it for another one is quite a financial hardship. But hey, if you've got the cake and don't mind spending it, you can trade trucks every other day for all I care.

I guess in a roundabout way what I am trying to say is you can find a trailer that fits your truck, and your needs. All you need to do is look.

[Grit_dog]

valhalla360 wrote:

packpe89 wrote:
It is also much easier to fuel up on the trip with the diesel, utilizing truck stops instead of mingling with cars at the gas pumps.

I've had both gas and diesel and found the opposite.

Of course, we typically top out around 250miles in a day, so we fill up before hooking up.

I can stop at any gas station and use any pump with the current gas truck.

With the diesel, I had to wait in line for one of the single diesel pumps at smaller stations or go stand in a puddle of diesel at a truck stop before carefully working the high speed nozzle, so it wouldn't spit up on me adding to the puddle.

On the rare occasions when we do fill up with trailer in tow, it's usually at the big stations right off of an exit, so no big deal mixing with cars.

Or, in summary, fueling up is non issue regardless which team you're batting for....

[Grit_dog]

noteven wrote:
Why do we "hooray" more tran mission speeds in pickup trucks then complain when the truck shifts gears when we are towing?

Are you 4x4ord's alter ego?

[valhalla360]

packpe89 wrote:
It is also much easier to fuel up on the trip with the diesel, utilizing truck stops instead of mingling with cars at the gas pumps.

I've had both gas and diesel and found the opposite.

Of course, we typically top out around 250miles in a day, so we fill up before hooking up.

I can stop at any gas station and use any pump with the current gas truck.

With the diesel, I had to wait in line for one of the single diesel pumps at smaller stations or go stand in a puddle of diesel at a truck stop before carefully working the high speed nozzle, so it wouldn't spit up on me adding to the puddle.

On the rare occasions when we do fill up with trailer in tow, it's usually at the big stations right off of an exit, so no big deal mixing with cars.

[Jastrong]

Thanks guys for all the information, certainly a lot to think about. Still processing a lot of it.

[noteven]

Why do we "hooray" more tran mission speeds in pickup trucks then complain when the truck shifts gears when we are towing?

[Grit_dog]

5ver or TT doesn’t really matter in how well the truck handles the load from a power standpoint. Frontal area, weight and driving conditions are far more important.
And IMO driving conditions is what I’d rate highest concern for gas vs diesel.
Mountains, altitude, nasty head winds common? I wouldn’t want to pull with your current truck. Truck will handle it, but not at the speed of level of effort out of the truck that I’d prefer.
Mostly flat-ish, low altitude, not out in the plains where the wind blows sideways for hours on end? I wouldn’t hesitate to just rock the old Hemi, especially if I already owned it.

[goducks10]

I towed a 9200 lb 5er with a 2018 Ram 2500 6.4, 4.10 gears and it was only adequate. I sold the 5er and got a 9600 lb loaded TT. Same type of towing experience naturally. The killer was a month long trip through 7 western states with one pass at 8432' and a 10% grade. That trip was a PITA. Mostly because I was in higher elevations where you lose 3% of power for every 1000' of altitude. The Hemi need to of course wind out to pull the load. Problem was that even with locking out 6th that every slight incline the 6sp would drop to 4th and then sometimes 3rd. I suppose the 8sp would calm things down but not with 12,000 lbs behind it.
MPG's were 8's-9's. 9's being rare. The 6sp is terrible. Down in the lower gears the spacing is wrong and it will drop to a lower gear and scream then up shift and bog. Rinse repeat.
After that year of which we put over 5,000 miles of towing on the 2500 6.4 I said never again. The in 2020 Covid hit and we didn't do much traveling so the Hemi was fine. Come Sept 2020 a dealer in town had a 2019 3500 CTD leftover so with the stupid high prices for used truck and the good discount on the 19 I made the switch back to a diesel.
I have 4558 lbs of CCC and it tows our TT like a dream. I also get in the 11's for MPG.
I would never want to tow over 7-8,000 lbs with the 6sp Hemi. If I only towed out in the flat parts where you have some rolling hills on occasion then you'd be okay towing heavier. But the 1st 5%-6% grade you hit and the Hemi 6sp drops from 5th to 3rd and maybe 2nd you'd see why I switched.

FWIW on the 8432' 10% grade that seemed like it lasted for eternity I was in 1st gear at 20 mpg or so and wound out to 42-4500 rpms. Only thing I could think of was I was glad I still had a warranty.

[Second_Chance]

BurbMan wrote:
A TT only has 10-15% of it's weight on the tongue, a 5er has 20-25% of its weight on the pin, so the same payload on the truck gets you a bigger TT than 5er.

You've got too many plates spinning here....first figure out what size trailer you want and whether TT or 5er, then figure out if you need to upgrade the truck.

You said the truck did fine with the TT you rented, if you buy one that's similar there's no need to upgrade the truck. If you decide that you like a 5er better, then decide which one you want to buy and from there you can decide SRW/DRW and gas/diesel based on the specs of the trailer.

This^^. I wish I had stated it that clearly.

Rob

[BurbMan]

A TT only has 10-15% of it's weight on the tongue, a 5er has 20-25% of its weight on the pin, so the same payload on the truck gets you a bigger TT than 5er.

You've got too many plates spinning here....first figure out what size trailer you want and whether TT or 5er, then figure out if you need to upgrade the truck.

You said the truck did fine with the TT you rented, if you buy one that's similar there's no need to upgrade the truck. If you decide that you like a 5er better, then decide which one you want to buy and from there you can decide SRW/DRW and gas/diesel based on the specs of the trailer.

[JKJavelin]

When we bought our 5th wheel, I had a brand new 2016 Ram 2500 6.4.
Less than 2 years later I bought a new 2018 Ram 3500 Cummins.
Guess why?

[Grit_dog]

Second Chance wrote:
Skip the 3/4-ton trucks if you're going diesel. The diesel drivetrain, though a joy to tow with, is heavy and really eats into the payload of a 3/4-ton truck.

Rob

Only if you don't understand the realities of payload/gvwr, especially with 3/4 tons.