โNov-23-2019 02:01 PM
โNov-25-2019 05:38 AM
JRscooby wrote:markchengr wrote:
I'm thinking that eventually they will standardize the battery packs into just a few sizes (big trucks, buses, cars etc.) and make them quickly and easily replaceable somewhat like a cassette toilet. They're already working on this for long haul trucks. Then you will pull into an electric fueling station, change out your battery pack with a charged one and be on your way much the same as filling your tank today. It probably won't happen in my lifetime but I think it's the future. -Mark.
As far as that goes we already have, and have had for decades, the ability to change tractors under a trailer in less time than it can take to fill the tank on the tractor. This might reduce the demand for interchangeable batteries on large trucks.
Then we have seen posts where some do not want to exchange propane tank because they might get a older one. Do you think they will swap batteries?
I don't know how a quick charger works. I know, if you hook a mostly discharged 12V battery to a fully charged 12V battery with heavy cables it does not take long before both batteries have the same voltage? I think in theory, if the fully charged battery had a extra cell, so normal discharge voltage was higher than the charged voltage of the other, and say 50% more capacity, how long would it take to charge a battery? Of course, once the charging battery had done it's job it would take a while to recharge it.
โNov-25-2019 05:32 AM
markchengr wrote:
I'm thinking that eventually they will standardize the battery packs into just a few sizes (big trucks, buses, cars etc.) and make them quickly and easily replaceable somewhat like a cassette toilet. They're already working on this for long haul trucks. Then you will pull into an electric fueling station, change out your battery pack with a charged one and be on your way much the same as filling your tank today. It probably won't happen in my lifetime but I think it's the future. -Mark.
โNov-25-2019 04:51 AM
โNov-25-2019 03:24 AM
MrWizard wrote:
Soda pop companies and beer bottlers,did that for many years, until alu cans and plastic bottles were introduced
My question who invented these throw away options, the bottlers, or the alu and plastic industries, seeking to grow their markets, somebody convinced the bottlers it was less costly to buy new alu and plastic containers, than washing the glass bottles, every truck going out for delivery, brought back empties to the warehouse
โNov-25-2019 03:20 AM
pianotuna wrote:
2oldman our sun may last another 5 billion years. After that--it's curtains.
โNov-24-2019 04:13 PM
Reisender wrote:
Nope. Used EV batteries are already in high demand. Expected real world lifespan of the cells is 30 years. Never make assumptions on todays technology. In three years it will be a different game.
PS. I'm one of those who trade in their vehicle every 5 or 6 years. (I like tech) Whoever gets my EV next spring will have an amazing problem free EV with probably at least another decade of life...if not more. We have a bunch of neighbours who have already called dibs.
โNov-24-2019 03:19 PM
โNov-24-2019 02:12 PM
profdant139 wrote:
Actually, Gary, this thread actually illustrates the value of dialogue. I am a pro-EV person -- we are considering getting an EV car for DW, who does not need much range. And yes, we have solar panels on our roof at home.
But I had never stopped to think about the finite nature of lithium, until the OP posted a question. And then I did a little googling and found that yes, although lithium is plentiful in the short run, there are long term concerns.
So I discovered something by actually listening to someone with whom I might disagree. This is a good thing.
Gdetrailer wrote:
While it IS "possible" to "recycle" (as in fully break down a Lith battery to the basic components and purity) the problem is to do so IS prohibitively EXPENSIVE to do so.
To break down all of the components to their purest form that is required takes considerable amount of more energy than just digging up new raw material and processing it to a ready usable product.
โNov-24-2019 01:20 PM
JRscooby wrote:CFerguson wrote:
In 1970, I read a paper that 'proved' that we would run out of lead by 1982. I cut out the article to remind me to fact check it when the time rolled around. And dang if we STILL haven't run out of lead. or peak oil. or a hundred other things that went full chicken little.
Commodities are subject to Capitalism (til gov gets involved in stealing from all parties, of course) and thus will never run out. Youll only have to pay more and more as the supply declines. Eventually some bright bulb will figure out a way to recycle it or find a cheaper substitute. Or an entire new tech will come along and obsolete the entire thing anyway.
Don't sweat it.
But if nobody had pointed out the issue, started the development of recycling, would we have the lead we need? (And some of the technology used in recycling is used in the mines to protect the miners and people living in the area)
As for "Capitalism will save us"; We have proven, to the capitalist at least, that without pushback from strong labor unions, or government regulation, capitalism will save everything for fewer and fewer people.
โNov-24-2019 12:20 PM
2oldman wrote:well...
Li is one of the most abundant resources, but everything has its limits...except sunshine.
โNov-24-2019 12:07 PM
Gdetrailer wrote:garyemunson wrote:
This entire thread should be deleted as it is based on the right wing talking point of "EVs bad!". The statement "can't be recycled" is totally false. Many companies have started successful recycling programs and here in Nevada where I live, lithium mining by evaporating salts is big business utilizing the old "poison waterholes" from old Western movies to get some use out of lifeless, desolate wasteland area. Myself, I have been driving electric over 7 years now, the last two getting fueled for free from our rooftop solar. The carbon industry is scared to death of electric vehicles wiping away their livelyhood and so are car dealers as, like I can assure you from my personal use, maintainance and repair of electric vehicles is a tiny fraction of that of petroleum cars. Most electric cars never get their brakes replaced unless parts rust off from age.
While it IS "possible" to "recycle" (as in fully break down a Lith battery to the basic components and purity) the problem is to do so IS prohibitively EXPENSIVE to do so.
To break down all of the components to their purest form that is required takes considerable amount of more energy than just digging up new raw material and processing it to a ready usable product.
This is where old fashioned Lead Acid batteries shine, they are easy to break down, reprocess and make new batteries from without adding a drop of lead to them.
NOBODY is going to be willing to pay MORE for a vehicle or battery which is tagged as "RECYCLED" or contains "RECYCLED CONTENT". The cost will be much higher than a new battery..
My suspicion is majority of EV owners will not ever consider repairing their car when it breaks or when the battery fails, instead they are going to treat it just like they do with pretty much their Iphones, TVs and other items..
It will be traded in for a "new" model, the old one will simply be sent directly to the scrap yard. It is nothing more than an "appliance".
Just because it can be made, does not mean it is environmentally friendly..
Folks now days demand having the newest, latest, greatest things with more bells buzzers and whistles to break..
How about just a SIMPLE, no frills basic vehicle which does not cost so much you have to put it on a 20 yr payment plan? I don't need a self driving car, I don't need internet in my car, I don't need a game console in my car, I don't need a 360 camera in my car.. Four wheels, brakes, motive power, steering wheel and a seat and a simple body with some heat and AC for comfort.
The sad thing is 10, 20, 30 yrs or more our grandkids and their grand kids will be left with to deal with heaps and heaps of these so called "environmentally friendly" worn out EV batteries littering the earth when discarded.
โNov-24-2019 11:46 AM
garyemunson wrote:
This entire thread should be deleted as it is based on the right wing talking point of "EVs bad!". The statement "can't be recycled" is totally false. Many companies have started successful recycling programs and here in Nevada where I live, lithium mining by evaporating salts is big business utilizing the old "poison waterholes" from old Western movies to get some use out of lifeless, desolate wasteland area. Myself, I have been driving electric over 7 years now, the last two getting fueled for free from our rooftop solar. The carbon industry is scared to death of electric vehicles wiping away their livelyhood and so are car dealers as, like I can assure you from my personal use, maintainance and repair of electric vehicles is a tiny fraction of that of petroleum cars. Most electric cars never get their brakes replaced unless parts rust off from age.
โNov-24-2019 11:45 AM
profdant139 wrote:
Actually, Gary, this thread actually illustrates the value of dialogue. I am a pro-EV person -- we are considering getting an EV car for DW, who does not need much range. And yes, we have solar panels on our roof at home.
But I had never stopped to think about the finite nature of lithium, until the OP posted a question. And then I did a little googling and found that yes, although lithium is plentiful in the short run, there are long term concerns.
So I discovered something by actually listening to someone with whom I might disagree. This is a good thing.
I am confident that the market will supply an alternative, just as LED bulbs have really "outshone" incandescents. And remember that in the late 1800s, city planners were getting worried about all of the horse manure in the streets of the bigger cities, until cars came along to the rescue.
So yes, some threads can turn into partisan rants, on both sides. But other threads can serve as respectful exchanges of information and opinion.
It all depends on us, the forum participants!
โNov-24-2019 11:29 AM