What kind of quality lifepo4 do you get for $300 review

[jaycocreek]

Solar Engineering posted a pretty good video on a $300 ish lifepo4 teardown..Pretty profesional IMHO and somewhat different/more detail than Will Prowses tear downs...

Lot's of people have asked what kind of lithium battery you get for the ridiculous low prices we are seeing..This person notes a DIY would cost about the same as this grade A cased battery..And he is giving it away...

$320 lifepo4 tear down by solar engineering..

[Itinerant1]

No matter what the lfp battery that the end user is using now with all the info out here with certain possible limitations, one being no charging while the "BATTERY CELLS" are at 0c/ 32f temp but still allows use. If the end user designs their system or places their battery in an area that will encounter those conditions with no plan to warm the battery I would think that they will rethink the placement after the first time the system shutdowns.

Sometimes Darwin needs a wake up call because Uncle Murphy will impose his law. 😉

[StirCrazy]

3 tons wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

3 tons wrote:
Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so??

A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion:

http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html

Same thing at Renogy:

https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/

3 tons

doesn't dispell it at all. they are just heating the battery befor it ever gets to 0 degrees. what I was talking about was just cutting off charge sources at around 0 (sorry 32 for you guys) and allowing the battery to still be used untill say -20C (not sure what that is in F this early -17 or somthing like that) just running a load like a furnace at that temp should be enought to keep the internal temp of the battery above 0c which would allow charging again.

Steve

There are dropin batteries out there that allow what I think you're asking, once below 0c/ 32f or what ever the assemblers call low temp charging cutoff BUT STILL ALLOW THE USE OF THE BATTERY TILL THE NEXT LOW TEMP DISCONNECT.

This is Battleborn's...
Battle Born Batteries protect themselves from charging in cold temperatures and won’t accept a charge once the internal cell temperature drops to 24°F. At this point they will continue to discharge even down to -4°F. At this temperature we recommend no longer pulling power to avoid damaging the batteries.

Lifeblue batteries allow the same.

Even my Elite GBS Batteries do the same. If any cell drops below 32f it will cut off charging but still allow the discharge use of the battery pack.

Exactly, my consternation was over the statement “totally kills the battery” when this is NOT a LFP reality - the battery WILL continue to furnish power…

3 tons

that depends all the BMS I have looked at totaly disconect once you hit one of your preset. generly they don't just shut off charging as they are designed with one path. I wached the video of whats his name doing the temprature tests on a battle born and at 1 degree c it totaly disabled the battery. maybe the new versions with the heat have two seperat control sections, I would love to know if thats what they are doing now.

The renogy is kinda neat, but they even say there new BMS that is software driven, so sounds like some one beat me to it haha.. the tru blue doesnt give any details on how it works. or if it works the same.

Steve

[3_tons]

The ‘MLP’ effect??… (Mass Lithium Psychosis - lol)…We’ve all experienced it elsewhere, eh - And all the purported ‘wizardry’ surrounding LFP’ (aka, yet another ‘imminent FEAR’ commodity…) has proven ripe for the advancement of Mystics..

3 tons

[Itinerant1]

I believe some look for problems that don't exist or haven't been solved already.

[time2roll]

I added heat pads to my cells. On at 40 off at 45. What is the issue again?

[n0arp]

It's not like thermostatically controlled tank heater pads, space heaters, enclosures, or indoor spaces are impossible to come by. People make a huge deal about low temps and Lithium, but if they actually cared enough, they could easily mitigate the temperature issues. I think people just like to complain or want everything served up to them without having to apply any effort, or blindly listen to other people yelling about it and regurgitate it without any critical thought. It's a moot issue. End of story.

[3_tons]

Itinerant1 wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

3 tons wrote:
Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so??

A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion:

http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html

Same thing at Renogy:

https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/

3 tons

doesn't dispell it at all. they are just heating the battery befor it ever gets to 0 degrees. what I was talking about was just cutting off charge sources at around 0 (sorry 32 for you guys) and allowing the battery to still be used untill say -20C (not sure what that is in F this early -17 or somthing like that) just running a load like a furnace at that temp should be enought to keep the internal temp of the battery above 0c which would allow charging again.

Steve

There are dropin batteries out there that allow what I think you're asking, once below 0c/ 32f or what ever the assemblers call low temp charging cutoff BUT STILL ALLOW THE USE OF THE BATTERY TILL THE NEXT LOW TEMP DISCONNECT.

This is Battleborn's...
Battle Born Batteries protect themselves from charging in cold temperatures and won’t accept a charge once the internal cell temperature drops to 24°F. At this point they will continue to discharge even down to -4°F. At this temperature we recommend no longer pulling power to avoid damaging the batteries.

Lifeblue batteries allow the same.

Even my Elite GBS Batteries do the same. If any cell drops below 32f it will cut off charging but still allow the discharge use of the battery pack.

Exactly, my consternation was over the statement “totally kills the battery” when this is NOT a LFP reality - the battery WILL continue to furnish power…

3 tons

[jaycocreek]

G-Dog wrote:
Nice backpeddle…
You wrote, in your own words. “I don’t think many people know…..” and then proceeded to post the article.
Made me think you believe the nonsense

Naw,just poor wording on my part..That was from a major battery company in Canada,caught my attention and I passed it on..Was reading yesterday from a self diagnosed expert that LFP can be charged below 0C in moderation..He had some kind of formula for how much to put into them at what temp without do harm..

My point only is,there are a lot of battery makers like CanBat that claim there battery last alot longer if you do not charge it below 0C..Charging frozen cells in LFP is one thing and charging cold cells another as far as harming them go..

Mostly opinions without actual experiences,charging in cold temps..My Lifepo and AGM are in a warmed area so I don't care..:B

Jayco

[Itinerant1]

StirCrazy wrote:

3 tons wrote:
Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so??

A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion:

http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html

Same thing at Renogy:

https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/

3 tons

doesn't dispell it at all. they are just heating the battery befor it ever gets to 0 degrees. what I was talking about was just cutting off charge sources at around 0 (sorry 32 for you guys) and allowing the battery to still be used untill say -20C (not sure what that is in F this early -17 or somthing like that) just running a load like a furnace at that temp should be enought to keep the internal temp of the battery above 0c which would allow charging again.

Steve

There are dropin batteries out there that allow what I think you're asking, once below 0c/ 32f or what ever the assemblers call low temp charging cutoff BUT STILL ALLOW THE USE OF THE BATTERY TILL THE NEXT LOW TEMP DISCONNECT.

This is Battleborn's...
Battle Born Batteries protect themselves from charging in cold temperatures and won’t accept a charge once the internal cell temperature drops to 24°F. At this point they will continue to discharge even down to -4°F. At this temperature we recommend no longer pulling power to avoid damaging the batteries.

Lifeblue batteries allow the same.

Even my Elite GBS Batteries do the same. If any cell drops below 32f it will cut off charging but still allow the discharge use of the battery pack.

[StirCrazy]

3 tons wrote:
Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so??

A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion:

http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html

Same thing at Renogy:

https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/

3 tons

doesn't dispell it at all. they are just heating the battery befor it ever gets to 0 degrees. what I was talking about was just cutting off charge sources at around 0 (sorry 32 for you guys) and allowing the battery to still be used untill say -20C (not sure what that is in F this early -17 or somthing like that) just running a load like a furnace at that temp should be enought to keep the internal temp of the battery above 0c which would allow charging again.

Steve

[Grit_dog]

jaycocreek wrote:

LOL! Stop and think what you just wrote.

It was a quote,not my personal opinion..Meaning,if you read the net enough and certain battery company specs and advice,yoy come up with some crazy stuff,including lifepo4..

I too have charged agm in all sorts of weather without any apparent damage,all lasting 5 years or so..But were talking inexpensive lifepo4 batteries...$300 for a true 100 amp hours(LFP) or $300 plus for 50-60 amp hours out of a quality agm like fullriver or ......CanBat batteries says not to charge below 0C(The above quote off there site)and ofcourse,most LFP say the same except there is a lot of chatter that charging LFP in the 20's at a low charge rate is okay..

I mean,who really knows..I have not seen anyone say they completely ruined a LFP by charging below 0C nor have I ever seen what CanBat battery claims of the lead acid batteries..

It's the internet,alot of opinions without a lot of actual trials for proof that I have seen....

Jayco..

Nice backpeddle…
You wrote, in your own words. “I don’t think many people know…..” and then proceeded to post the article.
Made me think you believe the nonsense

[3_tons]

Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so??

A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion:

http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html

Same thing at Renogy:

https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/

3 tons

[jaycocreek]

LOL! Stop and think what you just wrote.

It was a quote,not my personal opinion..Meaning,if you read the net enough and certain battery company specs and advice,yoy come up with some crazy stuff,including lifepo4..

I too have charged agm in all sorts of weather without any apparent damage,all lasting 5 years or so..But were talking inexpensive lifepo4 batteries...$300 for a true 100 amp hours(LFP) or $300 plus for 50-60 amp hours out of a quality agm like fullriver or ......CanBat batteries says not to charge below 0C(The above quote off there site)and ofcourse,most LFP say the same except there is a lot of chatter that charging LFP in the 20's at a low charge rate is okay..

I mean,who really knows..I have not seen anyone say they completely ruined a LFP by charging below 0C nor have I ever seen what CanBat battery claims of the lead acid batteries..

It's the internet,alot of opinions without a lot of actual trials for proof that I have seen....

Jayco..

[PerryB67]

jaycocreek wrote:
I don't think many people know your not supposed to charge agm batteries below 0 Celsius either...CanBat batteries..

CanBat batteries wrote:
3. CHARGE AGM BATTERIES IN THE RIGHT TEMPERATURE
AGM batteries have a certain charge temperature range. This means if the temperature falls outside of this range, you should not be charging AGM batteries. For all types of lead acid batteries, you should avoid charging if the temperature raises above 40 degrees Celsius or 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Cold weather also affects charging AGM batteries. You should avoid charging your batteries if the temperature falls below 0 degrees Celsius or 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Ensuring the temperature is within the range of 0 and 40 degree Celsius is important while charging, in order to ensure the battery lives as long as it is designed to.

Jayco

LOL! Stop and think what you just wrote.

Millions and millions of AGM batteries in the norther tier of the US and Canada have been charging in our vehicles in below freezing weather for a few decades. My AGM battery has started my car and immediately started charging 1,000's of times below freezing. Sometimes you can't believe everything you read, especially when you've proven something that sounds so simple to be false.

Enjoy,

Perry